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Intelligence: EA-18G Smokes An F-22
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March 1, 2009: An interesting bit of intelligence misdirection played out at a recent public display of electronic warfare aircraft at Andrews Air Force base, outside of Washington DC. One of the items on display was an EA-18G electronic warfare aircraft, and under the cockpit, where there are normally little silhouettes of aircraft destroyed (silhouette of the aircraft downed) , or bombing missions flown (silhouette of a bomb), there was the silhouette of an American F-22. When pressed, navy personnel watching over the aircraft would only reveal that the EA-18G had "virtually" shot down an F-22 in a training exercise. Now, normally, this would be a big deal, because the F-22 is stealthy, highly maneuverable and the top fighter in the world. The EA-18G is based on the F-18G, a pretty potent aircraft, introduced a decade ago, and generally considered somewhat better than the F-15. But on paper, the F-22 should be able to make short work of an F-18E, or any F-15. 

What was implied by all this was that the EA-18G used some combination of the many electronic warfare devices it carries, to help get the drop on an F-22. Whether this is true, or not (and is just an intel misdirection scam to confuse potential enemies), it does get people wondering about what kind of electronic warfare gear would put an F-22 at a disadvantage in a fight. Anything is possible, given the large number of electronic warfare devices carried on an EA-18G, but what is definitely probable are efforts to keep potential enemies confused, or distracted, when it comes to exactly what an EA-18G can do, with or without an F-22 in the neighborhood.

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GrantLee    So What?...Grow Up   3/1/2009 9:24:03 AM
YGBSM..LMAO. THIS got your attention?  Its like a great football coach used to say--"when you get in the end zone, try and act like you've been there before."  Note that the Raptor pilots and maintainers aren't painting any of the 700 Hornet/Growler or 500 Eagle or 600 Viper silhouettes below their cockpits.  Reminds me of the Red Flag I was at where an F-111 Aardvark took an AIM-9P shot at an Aggressor who had just shot down his Lead & 2 out of his 4 ship.  The crew were all high-fiving each other like a bunch of frat pledges coming out of a ta-ta bar.  Big Effin Deal.  The "morted" Flight Lead saw the ramp celebration and made the entire F-111 crews understand in the debrief that this was a lesson more for the Aggressor not checking his belly before a conversion-to-6 turn and wasn't a celebration since they still lost three guys on that run down the range.. 
The Raptor has generated anywhere from 80-0 to 188-1 loss exchange ratios in intense air exercises, even those where the tactics are intentionally using the Raptors training limitations against them for the exercise.  What the Raptor can't do is cover for the 1 out of 300 stupid rookie pilot mistake or the politically-motivated Raptor hating that has foolishly cut its total buy to 183.  For $140M the F-22 is a screaming bandit-murdering bargain compared to any other jet from a $100M Growler to a $60M Viper.  Our AF and our joint and allied armed forces NEED 240-280 F-22 Raptors to be in ALL the places we will need them in once the klaxon buzzer rings again--and it will ring one day soon, Mr Gates.
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HERALD1357    Agreed.   3/1/2009 12:23:05 PM
Especially in the Pacific Rim.
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RockyMTNClimber    Oh, lighten up Grant!   3/1/2009 12:42:34 PM
It is worth noting that this item was heard first right here on Strategy Page. Way to go Phaid. The Growler, unlike it's predicessor the EA6, has teeth that can bite back. Which is cool.
Check Six
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Dave_in_Pa    On the other hand...   3/1/2009 1:21:36 PM
GrantLee, I agree that in a perfect world, we'd buy another hundred F-22s. 
However, in light of the facts of fiscal limits and that the AF also needs to replace most of it's KC fleet, needs another 20-30 C-17s, needs X number of F-35s, etc., etc.  And the other Services:  the Navy needs new warships; and the Army have their needs as does the Marine Corps and Coast Guard. Plus a slew of new gen space comm and surveillance satellites are needed. Plus all the services have bases' infrastructure that needs upgrading, etc.

The bottom line is that there are numerous pressing equally valid weapons systems and programs competing for a non-infinite amount of available bucks. Spending another twenty billion on another hundred F-22s is probably not the wisest allocation of national resources, given these needs and the fiscal big picture.
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Beazz       3/1/2009 2:56:35 PM

It is worth noting that this item was heard first right here on Strategy Page. Way to go Phaid. The Growler, unlike it's predicessor the EA6, has teeth that can bite back. Which is cool.


Check Six



Actually no it wasn't. Was talked about over on on Feb 26th.
Post" width="12" border="0" />Posted: Feb 26, 2009 - 12:44 AM Reply with quote" width="59" border="0" /> Back to top" width="16" border="0" />
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Hey guys, I'm brand new to posting on this forum. I'm a journalist for Flight International magazine and I run a blog called The DEW Line.

I was at Andrews AFB today for EW event, and came across an EA-18G with an F-22 kill decal slapped on the fuselage.

I posted the pictures and my conversation with the EA-18G pilot on my blog here:

I vaguely recall a case where I think a Super Hornet shot down an F-22, but I can't remember any stories or rumors about an EA-18G kill.

Do you guys have any ideas?

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Hurlbee36    B.O. Happens   3/1/2009 4:11:51 PM
Okay, so now the enemy has to be concerned about two formidable fighters.

Monday, April 10, 2006

F/A-18F guns down F-22A (Update) A second gun camera photo from the Super Hornet vs Raptor dogfight has been found. The previous article has generated a heated debate among Air Force and Navy crew." alt="" />
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USNBandit       3/1/2009 6:28:53 PM

I'm curious what will happen when an F-22 meets up with an ARM Alamo varient.

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neiyold    Older F22 Shootdown   3/1/2009 8:50:23 PM
I believe that photo that Hurlbee has posted was discussed quite thoroughly some time back.  It was either Shaken or Displaced Jim that finally revealed the conditions and what the outcome was.  If the thread is still available then it would be in the Fighters Bombers and Recon section.  I browsed briefly but found nothing.
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GrantLee    Real Rqmts vs Boeing Wish List   3/1/2009 11:36:12 PM
@Dave_in_PA:  This new CSAF, who actually was the TRANSCOM, understands the difference between REAL COMBAT REQUIREMENT and a WISH LIST.  Schwartz has said numerous times that the AF and Joint forces actually DON'T need any more C-17s.  205 C-17 + 111 C-5M is more than enough MTM to get the Strat Lift job done (read the last few MRS studies), even in a Big War.  Unfortunately, 183 F-22 is not even enough of the REAL COMBAT REQUIREMENT to fight a Medium Big War, and another 60 F-22s will barely get us close and only cost us $10B, not 20.  If you don't have AIR SUPERIORITY then you can't do shit else.  Which is why we deploy our Air Superiority fighters into a region first when we're preparing to take on a Med-Hi air threat adversary (such as in Desert Shield/Storm).
Re "lighten up Grant"--Hey Bros, I get the joke.  Because the Raptor decal on a Growler was just a joke...  What I don't get is people blogging and writing about it like its an effin uber-air-intelligence news flash.  GMAFB.
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smitty237    My Take   3/2/2009 12:46:14 AM
Good analysis here, guys.  Frankly, I would be a little disappointed to hear that one of our F-18/16/or 15 fighter jocks hadn't already figured out a way to take down an F-22.  Like Arnold Schwarzenegger said in Predator, "If it bleeds we can kill it."  Well, the F-22 is the most advanced fighter ever fielded, but if it flies and can be seen, then it can be shot down.  Our Falcon, Hornet, and Eagle pilots need to learn how to combat the Raptor to prepare for the day that another country develops a similar aircraft, and our Raptor pilots still need to know how to engage in a dogfight against crackerjack pilots flying F-16s, Rafales, and SU-30s.  A well placed or even lucky 20mm slug fired from a cannon will down a Raptor just like it will any other aircraft. 
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