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We Want It All And We Want It Now

October 5, 2009: Peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians are still stalled. The basic problem, that the Palestinians want Israel destroyed, not negotiated with, remains. Palestinian media continues to be full of calls for attacks (terrorist or otherwise) on Israel. Even media (including TV) directed at Palestinian children, emphasizes the need to kill Jews and destroy Israel. As soon as possible. No wonder the Palestinians have a difficult time entering into peace negotiations with the Israelis. UN, American  and European diplomats are trying to arrange another round of peace talks, but to no avail. The Palestinians (at least the radicals) want it all, and they want it now. The less radical Palestinians want it all in the near future. The Palestinians see peace talks as an opportunity to scam gullible, but well meaning, foreigners out of cash, and other goodies. There's also an outside chance that the foreigners might be able to coerce the Israelis into giving something up. Peace, however, has never been a major goal in these negotiations.  

Israel has received two more Dolphin class submarines from Germany, with Germany picking up a third of the cost. Israel now has five Dolphin class subs.

Police in Lebanon are seeking 700 (out of 100,000 who arrived this Summer) tourists from the Persian Gulf, who apparently did not return home. It is believed that many of the missing are Islamic terrorists.

Lebanese terrorist group Hezbollah has been hurt by the continued presence of Lebanese troops and UN peacekeepers along the Israeli border. Although Hezbollah has bullied the peacekeepers and Lebanese troops into allowing thousands of rockers to be brought to hidden launching sites near the border, many of those sites are now known to the peacekeepers, soldiers, and Israelis. If there is another war with Israel (like the one in 2006), Hezbollah expects to face a more determined, and better prepared foe. Hezbollah also faces more hostility from the Lebanese government (and the 60 percent of Lebanese who are not Shia, or are simply hostile to Hezbollah).

October 4, 2009: Israeli police raided terrorist hideouts in the West Bank, and arrested twelve suspects.

October 3, 2009: In response to the continuing rocket and mortar attacks, Israeli warplanes hit two smuggling tunnels on the Egyptian border.

October 2, 2009: The Shalit video was delivered and shown on Israeli and Palestinian TV, and Israel released the Palestinian prisoners. Hamas believes that capturing more Israelis (soldiers or civilians) is their best prospect of getting anything from Israel. But the Israelis refuse to exchange terrorists convicted of murder, for any kidnap victims. Moreover, Hamas, or any other Palestinian group, has been remarkably unsuccessful at grabbing any more Israelis.

October 1, 2009: Israel agreed to release twenty Palestinians from jail, in return for a video proving that kidnapped (by Hamas) Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit is alive.

September 30, 2009: Terrorists in Gaza fired a mortar shell into Israel, but failed to hit any buildings or people.  In response to the several recent rocket and mortar attacks, Israeli warplanes hit three smuggling tunnels on the Egyptian border, killing up to seven smugglers.

September 29, 2009: In the West Bank, someone shot and wounded an Israeli motorist, who was driving near an Israeli settlement.

September 28, 2009: Iran said it successfully tested another of its Shahab 3 ballistic missiles. These have a range of 2,000 kilometers, and can reach Israel (which has developed several anti-missile systems to shoot down the Iranian warheads.) In Gaza, Palestinian terrorists fired rockets into Israel, and at a border crossing. There were no casualties.

September 27, 2009: For the first time this year, Islamic radicals fired rifles into the air during a funeral (of three terrorists killed yesterday). The falling bullets wounded three people. Hamas had forbidden the firing of guns into the air after the recent war with Israel ended last January, but did not try to stop the Islamic radical mourners in this case. Seventeen more Palestinians were wounded by Israeli troops, who fired on a large crowd of mourners, some of them throwing rocks, who approached the border fence. In Jerusalem, another 40 Palestinians (and 17 police) were injured as Palestinians rioted against the Jewish presence in the city. The Palestinians attacked a group of French tourists by mistake, and the tourists had to be rescued by police.

September 26, 2009: Terrorists in Gaza fired a mortar shell into Israel, but failed to hit any buildings or people.  

September 25, 2009: Israeli helicopters attacked a vehicle in Gaza, that was carrying six members of a terrorist group, and killed three of them.

September 21, 2009: Israel has obtained small landing craft, which enable them to move about 500 troops at a time to landing areas in Lebanon or Gaza.

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Bob Cortez       10/5/2009 10:32:44 AM
Israel is doomed because it will not take the steps necessary to convince the Palestinians peace is better than war.  Until now all they have given them is photo ops and live fire exercsises. 
 
The Israeli people have made an idol of their moral superiority so are mentally incapable of doing what is necessary to survive.
 
For the same reason their nuclear deterence is an empty threat: even if they are totally destroyed they won't want to be remembered that way. 
 
I know how such systems work, and one person can stop the process.
 
Quote    Reply

cwDeici       10/5/2009 3:30:50 PM
Roger that.
 

Wusses, the most of them... just like most of Europe and the American left.
 
Quote    Reply

Shirrush    Hey Bob!   10/5/2009 4:22:11 PM
And what would those steps entail, pray tell?
I found this year's most disturbing article today. It's about domestication and selecting out aggression. Could I dare the political uncorrectness to assume that this goes a long way toward explaining why there's no peace in sight? In a warrior society that rewards killing and idolizes martyrs, who gets a chance to pass his genes?  
 
Quote    Reply

BB45    Radical Israelis   10/5/2009 4:35:16 PM
Another issue is the radical Israelis who want no compromise with their religious beliefs, such as that all of the West Bank is their right to own.  IMO the Israeli radical right is as bad as the Palestinian radicals.  The whole region is extreme.  Let them both rot in their own houses.
 
Quote    Reply

stoker       10/5/2009 6:36:37 PM
What no-one seems to want to talk about is the fact that ALL of the borders in the Middle East are all totally artificial.
All these borders and the Countries within these borders are the result of the disintegration of the now defunct Ottoman Empire.This occurred as a result of the aftermath
 of WW 1.
The British and French negotiated the Balfour Agreement between thenselves to benefit their own colonial greed.
After W.W. 2 further boundaries were redrawn again through out the M.E.
The Jews have been in Jerusalem and through out the surrounding lands for thousand of years.
They are the only ethnical group that has ANY legitimate clains in the area we now call Israel.
The Arabs now try to base there claim on references in the Koran that Mohammod tied his mythical horse to the furtherest mosque, this arguement only surfaced in the last few decades.
There is NO reference in the entire Koran to Jerusalem. NONE
Even the term Palestinian is of very recent origin and was first used as the Jewish Palestine.
Israel has the only legitimate claim to ALL of Jerusalem, All the land that Israel nows owns, and that includes the Golan, is land that was gained when Israel was attacked by her Arab neighbors. Israel must keep all of the area she now occupies for selfdefence.
 
Israel is the ONLY democratic country in the entire M.E., Israel is the only country in the M.E. that treats all of its citizens as equals, and that includes its citizen of Arab descent, the only country in the M.E. that has freedom of religon and freedom of speech for all of its citizens, and the only country in the M.E. to have equal rights for women. 
 
All Israel wants to do is live in peace and harmony with its neighbors, all of Israels attempts to buy peace for land has been totally reject by the Palestinians ( Arafat ), the Arabs/ Iranians have stated openly they want to wipe Israel and its Jewish population of the map.
Israel will survive and prosper but the world must appreciate that trying to appease Islamic terrorists by trying force Israel to hand over Jewish lands is a recipe for disaster and will only incourage Islamic radicals to continue their evil ways.
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

kerravon       10/6/2009 8:22:49 AM

Israel is the ONLY democratic country in the entire M.E., Israel is the only country in the M.E. that treats all of its citizens as equals, and that includes its citizen of Arab descent, the only country in the M.E. that has freedom of religon and freedom of speech for all of its citizens, and the only country in the M.E. to have equal rights for women. 
Um, pardon my intrusion, but Iraq with 300+ political parties would come close to counting as democratic, wouldn't it?  Equality for Kurds and Arabs.  Freedom of religion and speech too.  Equality for women too.  In fact, they've even got "positive" discrimination to make sure adequate representation for women.  Which makes the number of women in their parliaments more than most western countries, I believe?
 
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bropous    You Want Peace, Israel?   10/6/2009 8:59:37 AM
 ELIMINATE the Palescum.
 
Their children's television shows (enabled and paid for by the UN) call for the murder of your children.
 
LEVEL GAZA TODAY.
 
 
Quote    Reply

Ezekiel       10/6/2009 2:14:03 PM

What no-one seems to want to talk about is the fact that ALL of the borders in the Middle East are all totally artificial.

All these borders and the Countries within these borders are the result of the disintegration of the now defunct Ottoman Empire.This occurred as a result of the aftermath

 of WW 1.

The British and French negotiated the Balfour Agreement between thenselves to benefit their own colonial greed.

After W.W. 2 further boundaries were redrawn again through out the M.E.

The Jews have been in Jerusalem and through out the surrounding lands for thousand of years.

They are the only ethnical group that has ANY legitimate clains in the area we now call Israel.

The Arabs now try to base there claim on references in the Koran that Mohammod tied his mythical horse to the furtherest mosque, this arguement only surfaced in the last few decades.

There is NO reference in the entire Koran to Jerusalem. NONE

Even the term Palestinian is of very recent origin and was first used as the Jewish Palestine.

Israel has the only legitimate claim to ALL of Jerusalem, All the land that Israel nows owns, and that includes the Golan, is land that was gained when Israel was attacked by her Arab neighbors. Israel must keep all of the area she now occupies for selfdefence.

 

Israel is the ONLY democratic country in the entire M.E., Israel is the only country in the M.E. that treats all of its citizens as equals, and that includes its citizen of Arab descent, the only country in the M.E. that has freedom of religon and freedom of speech for all of its citizens, and the only country in the M.E. to have equal rights for women. 

 

All Israel wants to do is live in peace and harmony with its neighbors, all of Israels attempts to buy peace for land has been totally reject by the Palestinians ( Arafat ), the Arabs/ Iranians have stated openly they want to wipe Israel and its Jewish population of the map.

Israel will survive and prosper but the world must appreciate that trying to appease Islamic terrorists by trying force Israel to hand over Jewish lands is a recipe for disaster and will only incourage Islamic radicals to continue their evil ways.

 

 

good article....extremism is a relative concept.
 
History has shown us that the Arabs are as good as anyone at blurring the lines, embracing victimhood and distorting the reality on th ground.
 
 
Good article
 
link />
 
Quote    Reply

cwDeici       10/7/2009 4:08:24 AM

Another issue is the radical Israelis who want no compromise with their religious beliefs, such as that all of the West Bank is their right to own.  IMO the Israeli radical right is as bad as the Palestinian radicals.  The whole region is extreme.  Let them both rot in their own houses.


Yes, because actually being genocided and subjected to terrorism doesn't make people grouchy at all.
 
(But yeah, Jews can be pretty good at fanaticism. A lot of them side with the left tho, stupidly.)
 
Quote    Reply

Nasty German Idiot       10/7/2009 5:38:18 AM
What no-one seems to want to talk about is the fact that ALL of the borders in the Middle East are all totally artificial.

All these borders and the Countries within these borders are the result of the disintegration of the now defunct Ottoman Empire.This occurred as a result of the aftermath

 of WW 1.

The British and French negotiated the Balfour Agreement between thenselves to benefit their own colonial greed.

After W.W. 2 further boundaries were redrawn again through out the M.E.
 
Agreed. 

The Jews have been in Jerusalem and through out the surrounding lands for thousand of years.
 
There was always a small percentage of Jews, however the majority of the Population was MUSLIM since Jerusalem was taken back from the European Crusaders !!!! 
 
Population (Area of todays Israel) 1881:  Muslim: 400.000,  Jewish: 13.000 -20.000 Greek-Orthodox-Christians: 40.000.
 
In 1898, there were just 5200 Jews living in Jerusalem !!!  (source:  Jewish Colonisation Association)
 

They are the only ethnical group that has ANY legitimate clains in the area we now call Israel.
 
I would say that all the differend Groups living in the Area since thousands of years have a "legitimate claim"

The Arabs now try to base there claim on references in the Koran that Mohammod tied his mythical horse to the furtherest mosque, this arguement only surfaced in the last few decades.
 
First of all,  you dont seem to be able to distinguish Arabs and Muslims.  Second,  they mostly base their claim on the fact that there was a majority of "their" People living in Israel until 1945. 

There is NO reference in the entire Koran to Jerusalem. NONE
 
Irrelevant.  3 Major world religions claim Jerusalem as capital.  

Even the term Palestinian is of very recent origin and was first used as the Jewish Palestine.

Israel has the only legitimate claim to ALL of Jerusalem, All the land that Israel nows owns, and that includes the Golan, is land that was gained when Israel was attacked by her Arab neighbors. Israel must keep all of the area she now occupies for selfdefence.

Why has Israel the only legitimate claim to all of Israel ?
 
Israel is the ONLY democratic country in the entire M.E., Israel is the only country in the M.E. that treats all of its citizens as equals, and that includes its citizen of Arab descent, the only country in the M.E. that has freedom of religon and freedom of speech for all of its citizens, and the only country in the M.E. to have equal rights for women. 

All Israel wants to do is live in peace and harmony with its neighbors, all of Israels attempts to buy peace for land has been totally reject by the Palestinians ( Arafat ), the Arabs/ Iranians have stated openly they want to wipe Israel and its Jewish population of the map.

Israel will survive and prosper but the world must appreciate that trying to appease Islamic terrorists by trying force Israel to hand over Jewish lands is a recipe for disaster and will only incourage Islamic radicals to continue their evil ways.
 
Nobody has a Problem with Israel killing Terrorists.  Things look like you are slowly loosing the edge though.  Maybe its time to make Peace finally,  and stick to the Area that Israel has now "occupied".  I personally simply cant understand why settlements have to be build and maintained in the West Bank or Gaza.  For me that is the work of rightwing/religious fanatics that should be stopped, because it is as harmful as shooting rockets.
 
 
Quote    Reply

Nasty German Idiot       10/7/2009 5:52:03 AM
/ edit :  correction:
 
"Why has Israel the only legitimate claim to all of Israel Palestine  ?" 
 
PS:  It is absolutely true that the Palestinians have to do more than Israel on the Road to Peace , but I couldnt let such a one sided comment stand here without reply.  Im all in favor of giving Israel any means to defend itself including nuclear strike capability given the threat they are facing, but claiming to be the one and only seems naive, wrong and hopelessly unrealistic given the things that Israel is facing. 
 
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

FJV    Errrr   10/7/2009 12:50:05 PM
Why has Israel the only legitimate claim to all of Israel ? 
Let's make that
Has Israel the only claim to all of Israel ?
Source:
link

5. The Thrice-Promised Land?

In 1914 came ?The Great War,? or as we call it today World War I because it was followed by an even greater war. The Ottoman Turks aligned themselves with the Germans and the Austro-Hungarians. These ?Central Powers? fought against the ?Allied Powers,? consisting of the British, French, Italians, Russians, and eventually the Americans. To help win the war, the British made many promises to many groups. From the Arab viewpoint, the British promised Palestine to them in 1915-16, in the Hussein-McMahon correspondence, an exchange of letters between a British official and the Sherif Hussein of Mecca, the gist of which was that in exchange for leading an Arab Revolt against the Ottoman Turks, the British would grant independence to the Arabs after the war (assuming British victory in the war!). From the Jewish viewpoint, the British promised Palestine to them in the Balfour Declaration of 1917. The French also had a claim on it by dint of the 1916 Sykes-Picot Agreement, which is why Israel/Palestine is sometimes called ?the thrice promised land.?

So technically the French could also make a claim to Israel.
I wonder what an Israeli Francophile would make of that.
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

 
 
Quote    Reply

gandolf       10/7/2009 9:12:15 PM
we are at war with Islam , israel is on the front line of that war,
I dont care who is right anymore , one thing i know , if you are occupied you are defeated.
get inline or take a beating ...israel was and has been soft on the palestinians ..
end of story for the palestinians . as for the golan to bad so sad , syria lost it in war .
hamass wanted gaza well they have gaza and if i where hamass there would be no way in hell id give it to fatah.
anywho after 20 years in the army i can tell you we are at war with islam.
israel has 200+ nukes im not worring about them droppiong one on me. if iran had one, just one  i would be worried. 
 
Quote    Reply

stoker    Jewish rights to Israel   10/8/2009 12:30:35 AM
I would like to make it quite clear I am not Jewish, nor am I an Israeli.
 
But at the moment it is Israel which is at the front line against the Islamic fundamentalist's dream nightmare of a world wide Islamic/Sharia  caliphate ruled by these same fundamentalist nutters.
I am not a Moslem nor have I any wish to be forced in to becoming one. I respect and back Zionism in Israel, for my own protection against Islamic theocracy. 
 
All of Jerusalem is the heart and soul of Israel and the Palestinian/Arabs/Iranians are quite aware of its place in Jewish psyche, their tactics now are is to get the useful idiots of the West, to do their dirty work for them. They have tried to destroy Israel by military invasions and got their bums kicked. The intent of these attacks was to totally destroy Israel and its Jewish population.
The 'war' will only stop when the Arabs agree to the fact of Israel is a Jewish homeland and Israeli's have the right to live in peace within its own borders.
 
In regard to the Jews claim to the area we now call Israel I submit the following bit of history.
 
Jewish Continuity in Jerusalem
Throughout history, the Jewish People has maintained a presence in Jerusalem, ever since King David established the city as his capital nearly 3,000 years ago. Except for a very few periods, when they were forcibly barred from living in the city by foreign conquerors, Jews have always lived in Jerusalem. It is for this reason that Jews regard the city as their national center. Indeed, it is the centrality of the connection with Jerusalem -- Zion -- which led the modern Jewish movement for national liberation to be called Zionism. Throughout millennia, and in the face of conquest, forced exile, violence and discrimination, Jews have maintained their direct link to Jerusalem, returning to live in their city again and again.
The Jewish national and religious tie to Jerusalem was first established by King David and Solomon, his son, who built the first Temple there. This First Commonwealth lasted over 400 years, until the Babylonians conquered Jerusalem and exiled the Jewish inhabitants of the city. Immediately following the Persian defeat of the Babylonians, the Jews returned to Jerusalem less than 100 years later, rebuilt their Temple and reestablished the Jewish character of the city.
 
The Jews ONLY left Jerusalem when forced out by invaders.
 
They then always returned.
 
Back 3000 years ago their were NO Christians or Moslems, in actual fact and I don't wish to insult anyone  both the Christian and Moslem religons are merely off shoots of Judaism and they did not arrive in the M.E. until over 1000 years after the Jewish homeland existed.
 
 
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

Ezekiel       10/8/2009 4:56:13 AM

I would like to make it quite clear I am not Jewish, nor am I an Israeli.

 

But at the moment it is Israel which is at the front line against the Islamic fundamentalist's dream nightmare of a world wide Islamic/Sharia  caliphate ruled by these same fundamentalist nutters.

I am not a Moslem nor have I any wish to be forced in to becoming one. I respect and back Zionism in Israel, for my own protection against Islamic theocracy. 

 

All of Jerusalem is the heart and soul of Israel and the Palestinian/Arabs/Iranians are quite aware of its place in Jewish psyche, their tactics now are is to get the useful idiots of the West, to do their dirty work for them. They have tried to destroy Israel by military invasions and got their bums kicked. The intent of these attacks was to totally destroy Israel and its Jewish population.

The 'war' will only stop when the Arabs agree to the fact of Israel is a Jewish homeland and Israeli's have the right to live in peace within its own borders.

 

In regard to the Jews claim to the area we now call Israel I submit the following bit of history.

 

Jewish Continuity in Jerusalem

Throughout history, the Jewish People has maintained a presence in Jerusalem, ever since King David established the city as his capital nearly 3,000 years ago. Except for a very few periods, when they were forcibly barred from living in the city by foreign conquerors, Jews have always lived in Jerusalem. It is for this reason that Jews regard the city as their national center. Indeed, it is the centrality of the connection with Jerusalem -- Zion -- which led the modern Jewish movement for national liberation to be called Zionism. Throughout millennia, and in the face of conquest, forced exile, violence and discrimination, Jews have maintained their direct link to Jerusalem, returning to live in their city again and again.

The Jewish national and religious tie to Jerusalem was first established by King David and Solomon, his son, who built the first Temple there. This First Commonwealth lasted over 400 years, until the Babylonians conquered Jerusalem and exiled the Jewish inhabitants of the city. Immediately following the Persian defeat of the Babylonians, the Jews returned to Jerusalem less than 100 years later, rebuilt their Temple and reestablished the Jewish character of the city.
 

The Jews ONLY left Jerusalem when forced out by invaders.

 

They then always returned.

 

Back 3000 years ago their were NO Christians or Moslems, in actual fact and I don't wish to insult anyone  both the Christian and Moslem religons are merely off shoots of Judaism and they did not arrive in the M.E. until over 1000 years after the Jewish homeland existed.

 

 


 

 

Historically accurate, and given todays western vs. muslim paradigm is also a pragmatic alignment.
 
This is how most westerner's should see Zionism...unfortunately this is not how most europeans feel and a growing contingent in the US as well.
 

 
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