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Waiting For The Gift From Nowhere

October 4, 2008: Increasingly, Sunni Arab clerics are agreeing with their Shia counterparts, that Iran and the Sunni Arabs are on a collision course. It's not just about which version of Islam is to be dominant, but which Islamic country will control the most sacred Islamic shrines, and, in effect, become the spiritual leader of the Islamic world. No one has held that position for about a thousand years. Saudi Arabia controls the key shrines (Mecca and Medina), but the Saudis are not accepted as the leader of the Islamic world. To most Moslems, the Saudis are a bunch of desert hillbillies who got lucky (with all that oil). Except for a brief few centuries, after Mohammed founded Islam and began the Islamic military campaigns that spread the new religion from Spain to India, no one paid much attention to the Arabs. In terms of numbers, Arabs make up less than a quarter of all Moslems. Most Moslems resent the Arab attempt to dominate Islam, just as early Christians resented attempts by Italians to control the Christian world. Iran, on the other hand, has been in the empire business for thousands of years. In comparison, the Arabs are a flash in the pan. But then there is the race angle. The Iranians are an Indo-European people, and have been defeating, and generally lording it over the Arabs, a Semitic people, for thousands of years. Memories are long in this part of the world, and in this case, ethnic memory trumps religion. Normally the Sunni and Shia Moslems do not get along very well. Conservative Sunnis consider the Shia heretics. And the fact that most Shia are Iranians does not help matters either. Iranians are a tinier fraction of all Moslems than the Arabs.

Over 80 percent of the world's Moslems are Sunni, and radical Sunnis (like the ones who run al Qaeda) believe the Shia are heretics and must be killed if they do not accept Sunni religious practices and beliefs. Thus, in the Arab world (which is very, very Sunni), Iran getting nuclear weapons is seen as a religious, as well as a military, threat. 

Al Qaeda is basically a Sunni Arab organization that attracts recruits who are not Arabs, but who MUST be Sunni. Al Qaeda was founded by members of the conservative Wahabi form of Islam found in Saudi Arabia. To a Wahabi, even contact with infidels (non-Moslems) is forbidden, and it is the duty of all Moslems to convert or kill the infidels. One should not lose sight of al Qaeda's core values and goals. When you do focus in on those values and goals, the video of an American civilian being beheaded makes some kind of perverted sense. 

While Sunni extremists (who exist throughout the Moslem world) are obsessed with  killing or converting heretics, the Iranian Shia take a longer view. They see the September 11, 2001 attacks as a great victory for Iran. Not only did it kill lots of Americans, but the U.S. response drove the Sunni extremists (the Taliban) out of control in Afghanistan. The Taliban were persecuting and killing Shia Afghans, and Iran was unable to stop it. Then the Americans toppled Saddam Hussein (who had long been hated in Iran) and put the Iraqi Shia in charge. The Iranian Shia clergy saw this as God's will, and a sign that Iran was on its way to becoming the ruler of Islam, and then the world (after everyone converted to Islam).

Although some rather loopy (by Iranian and Western standards) Shia clerics are running Iran, most of these clerics are typical Iranian leaders. That is, they are shrewd, patient, cautious and not given to rash decisions. It's these qualities that scare the Arabs the most, because the Iranian approach usually succeeds. That's why the Iranians have been the regional superpower for as long as there have been empires in this region. The Arabs note how Iran has made friends with China and Russia, thereby becoming immune to severe UN sanctions. The Iranians have also established a smuggling network that keeps their military going. The Iranians have been at odds with the United States for over three decades and are still standing. That impresses the Arabs, and scares them.

What gives the Arabs heart is the fact that the U.S. has been clever as well. The conventional wisdom is that the Americans are oafs when it comes to diplomacy. But like most conventional wisdom, the truth is more interesting. The U.S. has refrained from bombing Iran (which would make the radicals there more popular), and has, so far, managed to keep Israel from doing so as well. The Americans have done great damage to the Iranian smuggling efforts via subtle efforts, like restricting Iranian access to the international financial markets. The U.S. has used its large Iranian immigrant community to get information into Iran, and keep the political pot boiling there. The Arabs note how the Americans have been dealing with the Iranian efforts to subvert and control the new, Shia dominated government in Iraq. All these successes are buried by the media preference for criticism of America. But the Arabs see, and report, on what is actually happening, and stick by their American friends. This, despite the fact that the U.S. is the main ally of Israel, which is a big deal in the Arab world (which wishes Israel did not exist.)

The next miracle the Arabs are waiting for, is how the U.S. will prevent Iran from getting nuclear weapons. At the rate things are going now, Iran will have nukes in 5-10 years, if not sooner. If that happens, several Gulf Arab nations will use their trillion dollar war chest to buy nukes. They will get them, and the world will have another risky nuclear standoff (in addition to the one between India and Pakistan).

Within the Iranian ruling circle, there is no unanimity on many things, including nuclear weapons. The "moderates" want to dial down the rhetoric (and terrorism support and nuclear weapons program) and make peace with the world. The "radicals" want to keep moving forward towards the goal of world domination via unstoppable Shia Islam. The radicals have an edge because they are on a Mission From God, willing to die, and not willing to compromise. To many Iranians, these Iranian extremists are scary, and something that must be stopped before the world, and Iran, suffers some great catastrophe.

There is no single Iranian opposition group, even though there is widespread opposition. Historically, this is how things work in Iran. But eventually all these opposition groups reach the point where they feel they have no option but to act. Then, seemingly out of nowhere, there is an upheaval, and change. So, for the moment, all the world can do is wait for the gift from nowhere to arrive.

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cwDeici       10/4/2008 10:03:09 AM
I don't believe this 'gift' when and if it occurs (though I find it likely) will be a gift to Iran, more likely a punishment.
Their nation has sinned greatly after all, but it is not our decision what they will get, but Gods.

 
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cwDeici       10/4/2008 10:03:45 AM
But maybe when it comes they'll turn from evil?
Change, even punishment, could reform Iran...

 
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cwDeici       10/4/2008 10:06:08 AM
Divine Change or Punishment that is...
 
I wonder if worldly punishment would work or perhaps be a tool of divine punishment?
This will certainly come to head unless the Iranian people successfully rebel within the next few years. There's just not enough time. Israel will go at Iran if it tests a warhead... that is if there are any brave and aggressive Israelis left by then (they seem to be increasing from a horrid low-point).

 
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Gerry       10/4/2008 8:34:25 PM
I have a tendency to believe that modern inventions such as television, extended by CNN, Al Jezeera, as well as interface with the world via the internet is having a significant impact on the previously insulated Muslims of the world. Interaction with others across the world with instant messaging and the numerous vehicles available for opposing points of view has got to have an enourmous impact on those who can afford a computer and internet access. The internet has only been a viable source for world communication for 15 years or so, and has been growing in populairity emensely. Many discussions over idiology, religion and getting to know who you are dealing with is very enlightening to the novice. Remember 9/11, that has caused so much turmoil in the mideast and the west, is only 5 years old and much is changing rapidly. People are beginning to understand people.
 
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WarNerd       10/4/2008 10:31:08 PM

Israel will go at Iran if it tests a warhead... that is if there are any brave and aggressive Israelis left by then.

here is my scenario for the future
 
Iran will get the bomb, and publicly test it.  Nothing happens as the world sits around with its finger up it's butt because nobody is willing to be the target of everyone else's complaints if they play the heavy and hammer Iran.
 
Next the rest of the middle east countries obtains bombs to defend themselves from Iran, most likely by purchase from Pakistan.
 
Then Hezbollah detonates a nuke in Tel Aviv obtained from an unknown source.  Israel responds by launching most of their nuclear arsenal at all possible suspects (probably every Muslim country in reach except Jordan and Turkey).  In response the Muslim countries launch all their nukes, at everyone so that their enemies (especially neighboring Muslim countries) will not be strong enough to take advantage of their weakness.
 
The resulting nuclear spasm destroys most of the middle eastern oil production, so Russia wins.
 
Any comments?
 
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The-Great       10/5/2008 12:01:18 AM



Israel will go at Iran if it tests a warhead... that is if there are any brave and aggressive Israelis left by then.



here is my scenario for the future

 

Iran will get the bomb, and publicly test it.  Nothing happens as the world sits around with its finger up it's butt because nobody is willing to be the target of everyone else's complaints if they play the heavy and hammer Iran.

 

Next the rest of the middle east countries obtains bombs to defend themselves from Iran, most likely by purchase from Pakistan.

 

Then Hezbollah detonates a nuke in Tel Aviv obtained from an unknown source.  Israel responds by launching most of their nuclear arsenal at all possible suspects (probably every Muslim country in reach except Jordan and Turkey).  In response the Muslim countries launch all their nukes, at everyone so that their enemies (especially neighboring Muslim countries) will not be strong enough to take advantage of their weakness.

 

The resulting nuclear spasm destroys most of the middle eastern oil production, so Russia wins.

 

Any comments?
 
Nice try but  Iran will be dealt with by Europe, hell France openly talked about going Nuclear against Iran, just wait and see they could care less about Israel but the EU will not allow Iran to have a Nuke and be capable of strikeing Europe, there will be war, and Iran will be crushed IMO.  We in the US might not even have to help out.



 
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jak267       10/5/2008 6:03:36 AM
Israel isn't going to wait for Iran to test a bomb. Israel isn't going to wait for Obama to go "make nice" with them and then withdraw American forces from the region. Israel is going to attack them before the inauguration (and with deniable US help - especially the new bunker busting bombs). They will attack when the Iranians least expect it - probably during Hanukkah.
 
 
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mrjohnny       10/5/2008 11:26:42 AM
An Obama presidency will be the gift Iran is looking for
 
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Beazz       10/6/2008 12:13:51 AM




 



Any comments?

 

Nice try but  Iran will be dealt with by Europe, hell France openly talked about going Nuclear against Iran, just wait and see they could care less about Israel but the EU will not allow Iran to have a Nuke and be capable of strikeing Europe, there will be war, and Iran will be crushed IMO.  We in the US might not even have to help out.









Hey The Great,
You been drinking and just being funny right? I mean, no one on this planet could actually think Europe is gonna deal with anyone or anything could they? You are talking about the same Europe that can't even hold up its end of the deal in Afghanistan right? The ones that can barely muster 30K troops for that, but yet you think they could *crush* Iran? I think unless they do plan on useing their nukes, which we all know they are not, they best leave the serious stuff to the Americans and Israelis.

 
Quote    Reply

smitty237    Doubtful   10/6/2008 12:27:00 AM



Israel will go at Iran if it tests a warhead... that is if there are any brave and aggressive Israelis left by then.



here is my scenario for the future

 

Iran will get the bomb, and publicly test it.  Nothing happens as the world sits around with its finger up it's butt because nobody is willing to be the target of everyone else's complaints if they play the heavy and hammer Iran.

 

Next the rest of the middle east countries obtains bombs to defend themselves from Iran, most likely by purchase from Pakistan.

 

Then Hezbollah detonates a nuke in Tel Aviv obtained from an unknown source.  Israel responds by launching most of their nuclear arsenal at all possible suspects (probably every Muslim country in reach except Jordan and Turkey).  In response the Muslim countries launch all their nukes, at everyone so that their enemies (especially neighboring Muslim countries) will not be strong enough to take advantage of their weakness.

 

The resulting nuclear spasm destroys most of the middle eastern oil production, so Russia wins.

 

Any comments?


Your doomsday scenario is interesting, but unlikely.  I don't think the Israelis will even allow the Persians (which is what Iranians really consider themselves) to get far enough in their nuclear research to test a nuclear warhead.  Heck, they attacked the Iraqis and Syrians for even building nuclear reactors.  Probably the only reason the Israelis haven't attacked Iranian nuclear facilities already is because of the great distance to Iran and the logistical hurdles that would have to be breached.  Political issues are another concern.  A lot of Israelis like to believe that they don't really need the United States in order to survive, but more pragmatic Israelis in the goverment and the military realize that without the United States life could get a lot tougher and scarier. 
Currently I believe American presidential politics are more than likely playing a pivotal role in Israeli plans to stop Iran's nuclear weapons program.  An Israeli attack on Iran right now would undercut President Bush's Middle East policy and lend creedence to statements from Barack Obama the the war in Iraq has only served to strengthen Iran.  By extension this would hurt McCain and probably deliver the election to Obama.  Even a smashingly successful Israeli attack could end up helping Obama.  If Obama is elected in November, I would expect Israel's military planners to go into full gear to prepare for an attack on Iranian nuclear facilities before the inauguration in January.  For all his big talk about not allowing Iran to possess nuclear weapons, I seriously doubt that Obama has the actual testicular fortitude to use the military to destroy Iran's nuclear weapons testing facilities.  McCain has no such reservations, and I think both the Iranians and the Israelis know this. 
 
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WarNerd       10/6/2008 3:29:18 AM

For all his big talk about not allowing Iran to possess nuclear weapons, I seriously doubt that Obama has the actual testicular fortitude to use the military to destroy Iran's nuclear weapons testing facilities.

Actually, Obama probably will have the "testicular fortitude" to use the military at least once.  If we are lucky it will be against Iran.
Leaders without military experience, particularly in a society like the US where the military is under tight control, tend to regard the military as a sort of magic wand that can do anything.  But after the first time something does not go as anticipated they get scared and become unresponsive unless the planners (both political and military) can guarantee them a sure thing.  This is what happened during the Clinton regime.
 
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gamefish166    Response to Warnerd, jak267   10/6/2008 10:52:05 AM
I think the Israeli's will go after Iran and will do it because of what Warnerd postulates: that Hezbollah or some Palestinian group will try to get a warhead into the country.  Obama will not offer them support, which means the Israeli's are planning this right now, to do it before Obama is inaugurated...Jak267's timing sounds well considered. The world will love to rail against the Israeli's but in reality most everyone will be relieved. 
 
For the longer term, my hope is that the Israeli's will perceive the difference between supporting their right to exist and supporting their radical Zionists. 
 
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WarNerd       10/6/2008 12:06:52 PM

For the longer term, my hope is that the Israeli's will perceive the difference between supporting their right to exist and supporting their radical Zionists. 


 
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WarNerd       10/6/2008 12:23:02 PM

For the longer term, my hope is that the Israeli's will perceive the difference between supporting their right to exist and supporting their radical Zionists. 
 
The radical Zionists are Israel's equivalent of 'al Sadr', and like him they are tolerated because they control the 'swing votes' to select the ruling party in parliament.  They are not popular with any of the major parties, and if the ruling coalition can ever survive without them, or decides that they cannot survive with them, there will be a hard crackdown.
 
Based on the last couple of years the process has already started.
 
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WarNerd       10/6/2008 12:23:28 PM

For the longer term, my hope is that the Israeli's will perceive the difference between supporting their right to exist and supporting their radical Zionists. 


 
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