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Weapons: Brits Buy Better Grenade Launcher
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November 29, 2008: The British. Army has adopted the German designed AG36 40mm grenade launcher, as the L17A1. The U.S. earlier adopted a version of this as the M320 grenade launcher. Both grenade launchers fit under the barrel of an assault rifle (and similar weapons) , and weapons like have been in use for forty years, most famously as the U.S. M203. The AG36 is similar to the M203, but is easier to use, has its own pistol grip, is more accurate and can be used separately from an assault rifle with the addition of a stock. The new launcher can also be reloaded while the user is prone, because it slides to the side, rather than down, for reloading.

The biggest improvement with the AG36 is its sighting system, which features a laser range finder. At night, an infrared range finder enables a soldier wearing night vision goggles to see the light beam. The M320s sighting system has proved to be much more accurate than the older M203. This was particularly the case with new users. With the M203, you got better after you had fired a hundred or so rounds. That took time, and was expensive (the 40mm grenades cost about $28 each). The 40mm grenades weigh 19 ounces each and have a range of about 400 meters. The grenade explosion can kill within five meters, and wound up to ten meters or more.

Users of the AG36 and M320 are also getting longer range 40mm grenades, giving the weapon an effective range of 800 meters. The U.S. SOCOM (Special Operations Command) uses a variant of the AG36. The M320 was developed from the AG36, so the two are not identical. Both weigh about 3.3 pounds.

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dewatters    Old News   11/29/2008 11:54:58 AM
The British SAS adopted the AG-C variant as the L17A1 for their Diemaco SFW many years ago.  (The SFW was adopted as the L119A1 in 2000.)  The rest of the British Army started to receive the dedicated AG-SA variant for the L85A2 rifle back around 2003.  This variant was known as the L17A2; however, Jane's is now calling it the L123A1. 
 
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Nasty German Idiot       11/29/2008 12:50:15 PM
http://www.heckler-koch.de/media/Products/Special_purpose_weapons/ag36.jpg" />
 
AG 36. 
 
http://hydepark.hevre.co.il/upload07_7/060125_223342-991_ksk_g36_ag36_01.JPG" /> 
In service with KSK
 
On SA80
 
http://www.arthi.de/fire/g36/sa80_ag36_big.jpg" /> 

 
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OldRakkasan       11/30/2008 11:48:30 PM
Uhh the barrel of the 203 moves forward to open and reload, really not a problem to use it from the prone. If you can't put HEDP through a window at 200 meters with the leaf sight, you have no business carrying one. That's funyy "in sevice with the KSK". Ya in training ops, since the German people see no need to actually help their NATO allies in fighting terrorists.
 
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jic       12/1/2008 4:06:41 AM
Is it standard practice in the British Army to have your fingers on the triggers of both weapons at the same time?  Or is this a case of 'not shown: range sergeant yelling at him'?
 
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Nasty German Idiot       12/1/2008 5:23:59 AM
"Ya in training ops, since the German people see no need to actually help their NATO allies in fighting terrorists."
 
All though I try to be nice most of the time, I really have to tell you that your an uninformed dumbhead.
 
XXXttp://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=39092&archive=true

A U.S. Special Forces soldier on Tuesday was awarded the highest medal that can be given by the German army to a foreign enlisted troop.

Staff Sgt. Jonathon A. Zapien of 3rd Special Forces Group, out of Fort Bragg, N.C., was presented the Ehrenmedaille, or Honor Medal, during a ceremony in Berlin. Zapien accompanied a German special forces unit from June to October 2005 during missions in southeastern Afghanistan.

In his job, Zapien, a senior weapons sergeant, acted as a liaison between U.S. and German special operators while also engaging with the Germans in combat operations.

?They were an exceptional group of soldiers,? Zapien said of his German counterparts. ?It was far beyond your average soldier, even a cut above special operations.?

John Tomassi, a spokesman for the U.S. European Command, said Zapien was credited with helping save the life of a German soldier by calling in air and ground medical support during one combat operation.

?On my last rotation, I lost two friends when I was there,? Zapien said. ?This really should go more to them.

?There are a lot of soldiers who on a daily basis do a lot of things but don?t receive any awards. I?m receiving this on behalf of them.?

 http://www.stripes.com/photos/40026_91315052b.jpg" />
 
Stop your stupid BLA BLA BLA and accept that German Special Forces were on your side since 2001 - anywhere in Afghanistan - and that the German Army has kept  its increasingly dangerous Northern Territory clear so far while only getting 25 killed so far.  


 
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OldRakkasan       12/1/2008 11:50:24 AM
Uhh New York City or downtown LA are more dangerous than North Afganistan. I am well aware that German SF units have performed well in the begining of the conflict. Where were the Infantry Bn's we really need? Guess you didn't see the latests reports of the KSK being withdrawn from Afghanistan? The US and Britian and Canada has repeatedly asked Germany for some combat troops to serve in the south where all the fighting is taking place, the answer from them is sorry no. For gosh sakes even the French are fighting the Taliban.   Yes I am soo uninformed with my 6 years in the Infantry. I just don't know or hear anything about what our Government and regular Troopers on the ground think of the German efforts, lol.
 
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Nasty German Idiot       12/2/2008 7:49:25 AM

Uhh New York City or downtown LA are more dangerous than North Afganistan. I am well aware that German SF units have performed well in the begining of the conflict. Where were the Infantry Bn's we really need? Guess you didn't see the latests reports of the KSK being withdrawn from Afghanistan? The US and Britian and Canada has repeatedly asked Germany for some combat troops to serve in the south where all the fighting is taking place, the answer from them is sorry no. For gosh sakes even the French are fighting the Taliban.   Yes I am soo uninformed with my 6 years in the Infantry. I just don't know or hear anything about what our Government and regular Troopers on the ground think of the German efforts, lol.

"Uhh New York City or downtown LA are more dangerous than North Afganistan."
That is bullcrap and you know it. The comparison is less objective than a fart, and Cops in New York and downtown LA dont get blown up by roadside bombs.  Neither do they recieve around 100 rocket attacks on their buildings a month. The myth of the "save North" is gone since the middle of this year, attacks have drastically increased.  XXXen.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Armed_Forces_casualties_in_Afghanistan
 
I am well aware that German SF units have performed well in the begining of the conflict. 
Didnt sound like that in your first post, at all. 
 
Guess you didn't see the latests reports of the KSK being withdrawn from Afghanistan? 
Did you know that the KSK consists of less than 500 soldiers at the moment, of which 100 were in the Area all the time - while the unit itself it still in the process of building them up to 1000 troops ?  They have the first real rest since 2001.   And they have been replaced by the 250 new Quick Reaction force soldiers (Mechanized Infantry) , with IFVs and Tornado Air support.  That QRF has already suffered 6 casualties (2 dead) since they were deployed in September.
 
"The US and Britian and Canada has repeatedly asked Germany for some combat troops to serve in the south where all the fighting is taking place, the answer from them is sorry no. For gosh sakes even the French are fighting the Taliban."
 Im actually pretty happy with the descision of my Government to not send combat troops to Southern Afghanistan until the resupply of Taliban Fighters from Pakistan is not cut down - for which I yet dont see huge effords happening.  If the Pro-Taliban villages in Pakistan are not cleaned, Nato wont win anything in the South, and German Troops would be nothing more than a moral support for failed effords.  Some say Germany doesnt "do it right,  it needs to get real" - I have to say Nato should get real about their War - they wont make happen what the Russians couldnt do with less soldiers and a much less brutal attitude, while doing the same Russian mistakes again. 
 
Let me ask you one question: How can you expect Germany to change from one day to another from pacifist to pro-War,  I would really like to know that.  Germany got pissed from all sides for rearming at all !   Than everybody was scared after reunification about the "new German strengh" and both the US and the already falling Soviet Union made sure to keep the German Military as small and passive as possible.   ( 2 + 4 treaties )
Than suddenly it is expected to reverse 50 years of policy, turn round the attitude 180 percent and engage in a fight that doesnt look like its making much progress,  doesnt effect Germany,  and that is nearly impossible to win from a military perspective until Pakistan is joining the fight.  Now that is the most unlikely thing to happen, because their corrupt leadership is nearly allied with the Taliban, and the Pakistani Population is in open support for the Taliban and going there to fight in droves.  They may try to look like they are taking steps against "Terrorists, Al Quaida and the Taliban", but everyone with one open eye can see they are letting them do what they want in the tribal Areas. 
 
Now despite this, Germany has increased its troop strengh continously from 1,200 (2001)  to 2,300 (2003)  and now to 4,500 troops.  Infantry Fighting vehicles, Aircraft, Combat Troops have been deployed and have fought already, just not South.  Now the Northern Territory gets enlarged by anothe
 
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HERALD1357       12/2/2008 8:51:23 AM



Uhh New York City or downtown LA are more dangerous than North Afganistan. I am well aware that German SF units have performed well in the begining of the conflict. Where were the Infantry Bn's we really need? Guess you didn't see the latests reports of the KSK being withdrawn from Afghanistan? The US and Britian and Canada has repeatedly asked Germany for some combat troops to serve in the south where all the fighting is taking place, the answer from them is sorry no. For gosh sakes even the French are fighting the Taliban.   Yes I am soo uninformed with my 6 years in the Infantry. I just don't know or hear anything about what our Government and regular Troopers on the ground think of the German efforts, lol.





"Uhh New York City or downtown LA are more dangerous than North Afganistan."

That is bullcrap and you know it. The comparison is less objective than a fart, and Cops in New York and downtown LA dont get blown up by roadside bombs.  Neither do they recieve around 100 rocket attacks on their buildings a month. The myth of the "save North" is gone since the middle of this year, attacks have drastically increased.  XXXen.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Armed_Forces_casualties_in_Afghanistan

 

I am well aware that German SF units have performed well in the begining of the conflict. 


Didnt sound like that in your first post, at all. 


 

Guess you didn't see the latests reports of the KSK being withdrawn from Afghanistan? 


Did you know that the KSK consists of less than 500 soldiers at the moment, of which 100 were in the Area all the time - while the unit itself it still in the process of building them up to 1000 troops ?  They have the first real rest since 2001.   And they have been replaced by the 250 new Quick Reaction force soldiers (Mechanized Infantry) , with IFVs and Tornado Air support.  That QRF has already suffered 6 casualties (2 dead) since they were deployed in September.


 

"The US and Britian and Canada has repeatedly asked Germany for some
combat troops to serve in the south where all the fighting is taking
place, the answer from them is sorry no. For gosh sakes even the French
are fighting the Taliban."

 Im actually pretty happy with the descision of my Government to not send combat troops to Southern Afghanistan until the resupply of Taliban Fighters from Pakistan is not cut down - for which I yet dont see huge effords happening.  If the Pro-Taliban villages in Pakistan are not cleaned, Nato wont win anything in the South, and German Troops would be nothing more than a moral support for failed effords.  Some say Germany doesnt "do it right,  it needs to get real" - I have to say Nato should get real about their War - they wont make happen what the Russians couldnt do with less soldiers and a much less brutal attitude, while doing the same Russian mistakes again. 

Let me ask you one question: How can you expect Germany to change from one day to another from pacifist to pro-War,  I would really like to know that.  Germany got pissed from all sides for rearming at all !   Than everybody was scared after reunification about the "new German strengh" and both the US and the already falling Soviet Union made sure to keep the German Military as small and passive as possible.   ( 2 + 4 treaties )

Than suddenly it is expected to reverse 50 years of policy, turn round the attitude 180 percent and engage in a fight that doesnt look like its making much progress,  doesn't effect Germany,  and that is nearly impossible to win from a military perspective until Pakistan is joining the fight.  Now that is the most unlikely thing to happen, because their corrupt leadership is nearly allied with the Taliban, and the Pakistani Population is in open support for the Taliban and going there to fight in droves.  They may try to look like they are taking steps against "Terrorists, Al Quaida and the Taliban", but everyone with one open eye can see they are letting them do what they want in the tribal Areas. 
 
Now despite this, Germany has increased its troop strengh continous
 
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OldRakkasan       12/2/2008 2:30:55 PM
Your own words pretty much say it all,
"Im actually pretty happy with the descision of my Government to not send combat troops to Southern Afghanistan " Paraphrasing you here, "at least until something is done about Pakistan" Well If we had 10 or 15 thousand of your very capable troops, maybe we could seal the border a lot more effectively?.
 
When I said in the early part of the war I meant the first six months.  Are either one of you guys in the German military?.
Do you know anyone who has actually been to Afghanistan?. 6 causalties in three months, bfd. (except for the guys hit, and their families. My condolences to them.) How many people do you think have been murdered in LA or NYC since September?, a lot more than 6. 
 
 Anyone who wants to hear the truth straight from the KSKs' Cmdr. read this article.
 
 Also check out a couple more articles.
 
http://current.com/items/89428136/german_special_forces_leave_afghanistan_without_a_single_mission.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/01/AR2008020103141.html

Those came from about a ten second search with Google.
Bottom line Germany is not doing nearly enough to back their NATO allies.

 

 
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OldRakkasan       12/2/2008 2:35:22 PM

Well those second and third articles didn't show up. However one was titled "German Special Forces leave Afghanistan, Without a Single Mission". Guess this reporter is misinformed. You should send him that Wiki page.

 
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