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Sad Sack LPD Sent After Pirates

January 20, 2009: The U.S. amphibious ship USS San Antonio has arrived off the coast of Somalia, to serve as the flagship of the anti-piracy Task Force 151. The San Antonio  is an LPD 17 type vessel. It displaces 24,900 tons and is 684 feet long. It has a crew of 360, and normally 720 marines and all their equipment are carried. For the anti piracy mission, there are only a few hundred specialist personnel embarked, including a platoon of American marines and a platoon of army military police. There is 25,000 square feet for vehicle storage and a 24 bed hospital, with two operating rooms and the ability to set up another hundred beds in an emergency.

Onboard weapons include two Bushmaster II 30mm Close In Guns and two Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM) launchers to defend against anti-ship missiles. The ship is designed to carry and use two LCAC (Landing Craft Air Cushion vehicle), and 14 of the new AAAV (Advanced Amphibious Assault Vehicle), or the current AAV. The MV-22 (Osprey tiltrotor aircraft), as well as current helicopters, can operate off the ships flight deck. Each LPD 17 costs about $800 million. The LPD 17 class replaces four other classes of amphibious ships (LPD 4, LSD 36, LST 1179 and LKA 113). 

Apparently, only three HH-60H helicopters (a seagoing Blackhawk) are on board, and none of the usual amphibious vehicles or hovercraft. However, the San Antonio could handle any of the helicopters used by the 15-20 warships in Task Force 150, as well as UAVs. The San Antonio also has an extensive and very modern CIC (combat information center) for use by Task Force commanders. Communications are excellent as well, including a satellite Internet link. The well deck could accommodate small patrol boats or USVs (unmanned surface vessels used for patrolling).

San Antonio was the first of the class, and had many teething problems. The builders did a sloppy job, and it took a year, and several hundred million dollars, to get everything fixed. San Antonio became available for service late last year. The anti-piracy duty is the first assignment for the San Antonio.

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Camp       1/20/2009 10:11:47 AM
With the Army military police on board, it sounds as if the LPD might be used as a floating 'jail cell'. It's too bad they don't have any Marine AH-1 Cobras on board... they have a way of leaving an impression on people... & pirates.
 
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Belasarion    A little harsh   1/20/2009 3:44:21 PM
 I had to read to the bottom of the page to find out why you are calling this ship a "Sad Sack."  Apparently it has nothing to do with its current complement, mission, or anything else but has to do with the construction of the ship which is an entirely different matter.   The titling of this piece makes it look like you are calling the sailor and marines of this force incompetent to do this mission.  I think its unfair to link the two.  Many ships do suffer throughout their lifespan from mistakes made by the builders.  Write another article about that.
 
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Mountaintroll       1/20/2009 3:54:27 PM

 I had to read to the bottom of the page to find out why you are calling this ship a "Sad Sack."  Apparently it has nothing to do with its current complement, mission, or anything else but has to do with the construction of the ship which is an entirely different matter.   The titling of this piece makes it look like you are calling the sailor and marines of this force incompetent to do this mission.  I think its unfair to link the two.  Many ships do suffer throughout their lifespan from mistakes made by the builders.  Write another article about that.

The classic "Sad Sack" isn't so much incompetent as unlucky.  I have no doubt that the complement of the San Antonio want to do a good job and will try their best, but snakebit is snakebit.  We'll know after their first mission whether this is the case or not.
 
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Chris    LPD 17...   1/21/2009 10:36:04 AM
Considering the LPD 17/San Antonio is (from what I've read) quite a mess mostly due to builder problems, it is probably a good thing for it to have a serious, extended, shake-down cruise in a very low intensity environment such as the coast of Somalia.
 
However, I do agree with the other poster that a number of Cobra's should've been included in the mix, not only to get the quirks ironed out in air operations, but also to give the pirates something else to worry about (and since the ship is lightly armed, added protection just in case).  Of course, since the ship is evidently being used as a jail ship as well, I would recommend using the well deck as the prison level.  That way it'll be so easy to perform periodic cleansing of the cells :-)
 
 
 
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RockyMTNClimber    Why can't one of our allies lead this mission?   1/21/2009 11:15:36 AM
 
Let the British or French lead this one. 
 
Check Six
 
Rocky
 
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Greyhounds       1/22/2009 2:20:23 AM
Aparently, the Marines don't have any MP's.
 
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sjdoc    The gator freighters of August   1/22/2009 4:17:15 AM
--
Summoning from the StrategyPage annals (see 11 August 2008 ), I recount an incident in which:
 
"...a U.S. Navy amphibious ship, the USS Peleliu, while cruising off the north coast of Somalia, got a distress call from a merchant ship ten kilometers away. The merchantman was under attack by pirates in speed boats. The Peleliu promptly dispatched three armed helicopters, which caused the pirates to flee. The merchant ship suffered some damage from bullets, plus an RPG rocket that landed in the superstructure, but did not explode."
 
There followed a discussion in which I made the suggestion "that the U.S. Navy's amphibious assault assets, configured as sea control ships, are the ideal units around which to build and operate 'an international naval patrol' such as CTF 150."
 
This was for the most part ridiculed by parties claiming that the ideal helicopter platforms for this purpose were frigates and similar vessels of 3,000 tons' displacement or less.
 
It appears that the US Navy has paid due attention to what happened when USS Peleliu intervened on 8 August 2008, and took into consideration what I'd observed, to wit:
 
" ...a sea control ship exerts both surveillance and combat power over a range far broader than that which might be serviced by "a single < 3000 ton ship," and will do the job with greater sustainability, both in terms of range, consumables, and crew fatigue impact...
 
"[And] a sea control ship - whether a U.S. Navy 'gator freighter' or one of the similar French, Thai, Spanish, or South Korean ships capable of being so configured and operated - is not only able to function effectively in this role (including the provision of a highly visible suppressive intimidation that both freelance and 'quasigovernmental maritime pirates must respect) but - without its full amphibious force projection capacity - also does little more than [the] "single < 3000 ton ship [advocated by my disputant] to raise the stakes in diplomatic exchanges between the nations of Civilization and the prickly kleptocracies of the third world's failed states."
 
It seems that this is how USS San Antonio is being configured and despatched to function in the Indian Ocean sea area off the coast of Africa.
 
I told ya so.
 
--
 
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HERALD1357    A floating supply dump, barracks, and a communications node.    1/25/2009 2:00:50 PM
"Apparently, only three HH-60H helicopters (a seagoing Blackhawk) are on board, and none of the usual amphibious vehicles or hovercraft. However, the San Antonio could handle any of the helicopters used by the 15-20 warships in Task Force 150, as well as UAVs."
 
From the article.
 
Herald
 
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SCCOMarine    Snakebit?   1/30/2009 12:35:49 AM

 I had to read to the bottom of the page to find out why you are calling this ship a "Sad Sack."  Apparently it has nothing to do with its current complement, mission, or anything else but has to do with the construction of the ship which is an entirely different matter.   The titling of this piece makes it look like you are calling the sailor and marines of this force incompetent to do this mission.  I think its unfair to link the two.  Many ships do suffer throughout their lifespan from mistakes made by the builders.  Write another article about that.
 
The classic "Sad Sack" isn't so much incompetent as unlucky.  I have no doubt that the complement of the San Antonio want to do a good job and will try their best, but snakebit is snakebit.  We'll know after their first mission whether this is the case or not.


Belsarion's point has nothing to do w/ luck, good luck or bad; for that matter neither does the article. 
 
His point has to do the negative way SP presented the story.
 
SP has a history of presenting anything involving US Marines in a misleading or negative light.
 
Just look at the titles of the last two articles about US Marines:  Sad Sack LPD Sent After Pirates & The Non-Royal Marine Commandos

The 2nd story had to do w/ MarSoc but look at the title, who could tell. 
 
SP just wrote a very flattering article about British Marines doing some good things in Southern A'stan.  Operations that were non-existent before the 24th MEU took the fight to the enemy over the previous 7mths; many of those areas the Brits haven't been in for almost 2yrs.
 
Did you see anything in SP about those Ops... no.  Instead you get these mickey mouse stories about BS w/ BS titles.
 
What about the 30 Marines fr/ 2/7 who were ambushed by over 250 Taliban while on patrol in the village of Shewan.  Not only did they not lose one man but killed over 50 Taliban, including a very senior Taliban Chief, & chased them out of a town that was one of their strongholds.
 
Or the 65 Marines who's Plt Patrol Base came under assault by over 150 Taliban.  They repelled the assault then chased down the attackers killing over 50 Taliban.
 
Then there's the fact that TF 2/7 killed over 500 Taliban including several Taliban Leaders in a period of only 7mths.  The 24th MEU killed over 400 in the same amount of time in all those areas that SP is now reporting about the RM Ops.
 
You didn't see anything in SP about any of that.  Just the same BS, half reported stories if they involve the USMC.
 
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hardcharger    MISLEADING   3/24/2009 11:25:43 PM
1. The San Antonio only has 4 - 6 landing spots depending on what type of craft are been operated at the time, while capable of receiving any of the Fleets aircraft, that would require leaving at least one spot open.
 
2. The Boxer is right along side the San Antonio with a full compliment of Marines and no doubt Hariers and cobras.
 
3. The Combat Information Center with all of its hardware and software is ideal for Sea Lane control and was in fact designed to operate as a sea lane control vessel as it's secondary mission.
 
As usual, SP has blown the problems way out of proportion and the benefits were so badly understated that only those totally familiar with or with great interest in the LPD 17 ship build would see through it.
 
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scooterfan    political will   4/26/2009 1:33:46 AM
and you probably won't see any cobras or air strikes on pirate bases.  Give it some time and let sanctions take their turn.
 
 
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