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New Zealand Builds A Special Ship

April 11, 2008: New Zealand has dispatched its new MRV (multi-role vessel) HMNZS Canterbury [PHOTO], overseas for the first time, to a training exercise in the French Pacific islands of New Caledonia. The Canterbury is a 9,000 ton vessel that can operate large (CH-47 class) helicopters and carry up to 250 troops. Four UH-60 class helicopters can be carried and maintained. There is also a small hospital, which can be expanded into the hanger deck. The vehicle deck can carry a hundred or more vehicles and cargo containers. The ship has a crew of 110, and was built to commercial standards. The model for the ship was a roll-on/roll-off (ro-ro) ferry. This meant the ship only cost about $100 million. The ship carries two landing craft, but does not have a well deck for launching them. The 55 ton LCM class landing craft are lowered into the water.  There are also 2-4 smaller, and faster, craft for landing commandos. Armament consists of one remotely controlled 25mm autocannon. Canterbury is basically a peacekeeping ship.

 

 

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nyetneinnon       4/12/2008 2:31:26 AM
God speed!
 
Wouldn't it be great if every war ship in the world would be like these... peace-keeping hmmm, worthy idea.  Maybe someday?
 
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Yimmy       4/12/2008 6:22:09 AM
Yes well - I'm not sure I would want my battalion to be stuck on such a lightly armed ship without an awful lot of escorts.

Not even fitting it with a CIWS is really criminal cost saving.
 
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AdvanceAustralia    Worse still...   4/12/2008 7:21:00 AM

Yes well - I'm not sure I would want my battalion to be stuck on such a lightly armed ship without an awful lot of escorts.

Not even fitting it with a CIWS is really criminal cost saving.


...our two new 27,000t LHDs are getting the same "cost saving".
 
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greyghost    US Navy   4/12/2008 2:11:43 PM
  Maybe The US Navy should ask the Kiwi's to build their new littoral combat ships. If they can biuld a ship for the price quoted I would have them build the new ship. It couldn't be any worse than the crap the US defense contracters  are pulling right now. 
 
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Yimmy       4/12/2008 2:33:55 PM
I didn't realise the new LHD's your getting were so large - they really are of aircraft carrier dimensions if not for the dock (I assume it has a floodable well?)  Happily, HMS Albian, Bulwark and Ocean have Goalkeeper or Phalanx.  They may not be sure to kill some super-sonic missile - but at least the possibility is there!


Yes well - I'm not sure I would want my battalion to be stuck on such a lightly armed ship without an awful lot of escorts.

Not even fitting it with a CIWS is really criminal cost saving.



...our two new 27,000t LHDs are getting the same "cost saving".
 
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BLUIE006       4/14/2008 6:45:20 AM
It's a pity they don't have anything else to protect it ether ...
 
Couple of small SPY-1F frigates, would do the the kiwi navy wonders, especially since the Airforce is gone...
Makes you wonder how they would deal with 9-11 style attack ? or worse?
 
When they disbanded the fast jets(A-4) they convinced the Public they would spend more on the Navy, Army ... appears this hasn't happened...
 
NZ government really needs to lift its game defence wise, they should provide Australia greater support.... in the region.
 
2 SPY-1F Air Defence Frigates
2 Anzacs FFH
OPV
MRV
 
They could have a handy little navy ... with some effort...
 
Maritime surveillance UCAV would seem like a good idea also....
 
Maybe some  small special units should be added, some the Aussies don't have ???  SRR , SBS ..... Scout Snipers, Mountain Regiment(cold ops)?, Psy-OPs/Cyber War or such ...
 
Such additional capabilities may be useful in a DOA/DNZ scenario
 
 
 
 
 
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BLUIE006       4/14/2008 8:28:55 AM
Nansen Class Anti-Submarine Warfare Frigates - might be worth a look ?
 
Need more cells though....
 
Even still the capabilities would Create a quality ANZAC fleet
 
1 LHD (AUS)
1 LHD-Fixed Wing Ops F-35 (AUS)
2 AWD (AUS)
1 MRV (NZ)
2 Nansen ASF (NZ)
2 Collins II -LACM (AUS)
4-6 ANZAC IIs (3 Aus / 1 NZ)
 
--
 
 
 
 
 
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Aussie Diggermark 2       4/15/2008 2:16:29 AM

It's a pity they don't have anything else to protect it ether ...

 

Couple of small SPY-1F frigates, would do the the kiwi navy wonders, especially since the Airforce is gone...

Makes you wonder how they would deal with 9-11 style attack ? or worse?

 

When they disbanded the fast jets(A-4) they convinced the Public they would spend more on the Navy, Army ... appears this hasn't happened...

 

NZ government really needs to lift its game defence wise, they should provide Australia greater support.... in the region.

 

2 SPY-1F Air Defence Frigates

2 Anzacs FFH

OPV
MRV

 

They could have a handy little navy ... with some effort...

 

Maritime surveillance UCAV would seem like a good idea also....

 

Maybe some  small special units should be added, some the Aussies don't have ???  SRR , SBS ..... Scout Snipers, Mountain Regiment(cold ops)?, Psy-OPs/Cyber War or such ...

 

Such additional capabilities may be useful in a DOA/DNZ scenario

 
 


Since they disbanded the "air attack force" they funded and brought into service: HMAS Canterbury, the first of 2 new 1800t "off shore patrol vessels", 7x "in-shore" patrol vessels (about the same size as Australia's "Armidales") they have planned upgrades for the existing ANZAC's and will upgrade them with ESSM, Phalanx 1B CIWS, upgraded radar, EW and combat systems upgrades, habitability upgrades and (possibly) fit them with Harpoon Block II.

They've acquired 2x  "new" B-757 airlifters, with them just having undergone their "cargo door" modification to allow them a significant pallet carrying capability.

They've ordered a new  NH-90 Helo Squadron to replace their existing UH-1H Iroquois Squadron and new A-109 light Utility Helo's to replace their ancient Sioux helicopters and NZLAV's to replace M113's and Pinzgauer LOV's to replace their Landrovers.

Their P-3K Orions are getting a service life extensions, new missions systems and sensors and possibly an anti-ship missile capability.

Their C-130H Hercules are gaining new EWSP, new mission systems, a new digital cockpit and airframe refurbishment.

Army has ordered new Javelin missiles, new automatic grenade launchers, new trunk and manpack radios.

Army's Mistral SAM system have been upgraded and integrated with new air surveillance radars.

No, they haven't spent much on the NZDF have they?
 
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BLUIE006       4/15/2008 4:58:24 AM
These are not additions to those services .. only replacements & filling gaps
 
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Aussie Diggermark 2       4/15/2008 6:31:14 AM
The B-757's, Offshore Patrol vessels, Javelin ATGW and 40mm AGL's ARE additional capabilities that are not replacing extent capability...
 
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Aussie Diggermark 2       4/15/2008 6:39:56 AM
The B-757's, Offshore Patrol vessels, Javelin ATGW and 40mm AGL's ARE additional capabilities that are not replacing extent capability...

Whether they are capabilities that are simple replacements or otherwise, they are capabilities NZ wouldn't have had without either A) the retirement of an obsolete capability, ie: A-4's, or a funding boost.

Reality dictates that NZ won't be getting a serious funding boost (neither Political Party there is prepared to provide it) to provide for the sorts of capabilities you think they need.

I agree that NZ have a few gaps  in their capabilites and in my opinion an aerial based maritime interdiction capability is most pressing. I would argue that RNZAF's P-3K's require an air to surface weapon as one of their major requirements.  I would suggest that there are 2 parts to this though. One is that the P-3K will require a significant standoff range if it is to have a capability to engage a modern military force. Something like Harpoon II or SLAM-ER would therefore seem to be necessary. However these are expensive and if NZ is required to interdict smaller vessels, say Pirates etc, this is going to be an inefficient method of doing so. Perhaps a combination of a new standoff weapon and existing Maverick missiles to provide the RNZAF with various air to surface options.

They are at least gaining credible capabilities to provide forces capable of participating in regional coalition operations and some niche forces for operations further afield. Something they didn't possess when the Air Attack Force was potting around...
 
Quote    Reply

BLUIE006       4/15/2008 9:39:21 AM
I see your point to some degree, on the fast jet issue, and agree maritime strike should be a priority, however my major question still remains.. how would they deal with hostile aircraft in NZ airspace ?  say 9-11 style attack ?? ?
 
They are at least gaining credible capabilities to provide forces capable of participating in regional coalition operations and some niche forces for operations further afield. Something they didn't possess when the Air Attack Force was potting around...
 
The two Anti Submarine Ships, UAV and additional Special Warfare Unit, I suggested would only enhance their ability to preform the functions so suggest and assist gaps in the ADF... I'm not advocating they  build em tomorrow ...  but over time governments will change and as will the strategic environment.
 
As it stands, I doubt NZ has one ship that could contribute to a task force during a medium - High intensity conflict.....
 
Quote    Reply

Gecko       4/17/2008 3:36:13 PM

I see your point to some degree, on the fast jet issue, and agree maritime strike should be a priority, however my major question still remains.. how would they deal with hostile aircraft in NZ airspace ?  say 9-11 style attack ?? ?

They can't but who is really going to attck them anyway??? Maybe I should put it, who would really bother? They are a very nutral and non-agressive country which is one of the reasons the NZ passport has the best visa rights globally!


They are at least gaining credible capabilities to provide forces capable of participating in regional coalition operations and some niche forces for operations further afield. Something they didn't possess when the Air Attack Force was potting around...

 

The two Anti Submarine Ships, UAV and additional Special Warfare Unit, I suggested would only enhance their ability to preform the functions so suggest and assist gaps in the ADF... I'm not advocating they  build em tomorrow ...  but over time governments will change and as will the strategic environment.

As it stands, I doubt NZ has one ship that could contribute to a task force during a medium - High intensity conflict.....

They are called ANZAC Frigates for a reason look it up.
 
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Aussie Diggermark 2       4/19/2008 1:42:25 AM
They have the ANZAC frigates as their sole surface combatant capability that is true.

Over the next few years they will receive upgrades to radar, combat system, EW systems (additional fire control channels included), plus the ESSM and Phalanx 1B CIWS. They will possibly also receive Harpoon which means Te Mana and Te Kaha will be capable of performing in operations every bit as "intense" as RAN's frigates, until the AWD comes along.

As to how the Kiwi's would deal with a 9/11 style attack, I guess they cannot, unless forewarned and perhaps the Mistral SAM's or one of the Frigates happened to be positioned in the right place at the right time...

I would suggest that a 9/11 style attack is a limited possibility in this day and age. This threat is now well understood and the best protection is the increased airport security measures, passive security measures on the aircraft themselves, a strong intelligence and law enforcement capacity and a reasonable "air marshall / sjy marshall" program. The 9/11 report shows that even the US would have had to have been forewarned to have had any chance of defending against the attack as even the US cannot maintain constant CAP over very major city indefinitely...

How many fighters would you need to maintain constant CAP over NZ's major cities, infrastructure and military facilities? Many more than NZ could ever afford I would suggest...
 
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Enterpriser    AD....   4/19/2008 4:45:31 AM
Expenditures
Budget
NZ$1.7 Billion (2006-07)
Percent of GDP
1%

 
'nuff said.......
 
 
Brett.
 
 
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