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Submarines Article Index : Current 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009
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Indian Submarine Fleet Fading Away

September 3, 2009: India's slothful and larcenous weapons procurement bureaucracy has been blamed on the delays, and cost overruns, encountered in building six French Scorpene diesel-electric submarines. Currently, the project is two years behind schedule. But it is even more behind schedule if you count the several years the Indian bureaucrats delayed it even getting started. The delays are going to cost India an additional half a billion dollars. That's for a project that is  currently expected to cost $4 billion.

There's some urgency to all this, because by 2012, five of India's 16 subs (10 Kilo and two Foxtrot class Russian built boats and , four German Type 209s) will be retired (some are already semi-retired because of age and infirmity). Two years after that, India will only have five working subs.

But the bureaucrats dithered for nearly a decade, and it wasn't until 2005 that India signed a deal to buy six French Scorpene class diesel-electric submarines. But now problems have developed. The first Scorpene was supposed to enter service by 2012, with each boat costing about $500 million. But political and management problems have delayed that date by two years, and raised the price per boat by over $100 million. The French have raised the prices for some key components, and India has had some problems in getting production going on their end. The first Scorpene was to be built in France, with the other five built in India.

The Scorpenes are similar to the Agosta 90B subs (also French) that Pakistan recently bought. The first of the Agosta's was built in France, but the other two were built in Pakistan. The third Pakistani Agosta was delayed over a year because Islamic terrorists had killed some of the French engineers working on the project. The Scorpene purchase was seen as a response to the Pakistani Agostas.

The two designs are similar, with the Scorpene being more recent (and the result of cooperation between a French and a Spanish firm.) The Agosta is a 1,500 ton (surface displacement) diesel-electric sub with a 36 man crew and four 21 inch torpedo tubes (with 20 torpedoes and/or anti-ship missiles carried.) The Scorpene is a little heavier (1700 tons), has a smaller crew (32) and is a little faster. It has six 21 inch torpedo tubes, and carries 18 torpedoes and/or missiles.

Both models can be equipped with an AIP (air independent propulsion) system. This enables the sub to stay under longer, thus making the sub harder to find. AIP allows the sub to travel under water for more than a week, at low speed (5-10 kilometers an hour). The Pakistanis have an option to retrofit AIP in their current two Agostas.

Both of these modern subs are very lethal weapons against surface warships. With well trained crews, Agostas and Scorpenes can get close to just about any surface ship, no matter how good the defenders anti-submarine defenses are. But it's the AIP boats that are the real killers. Without AIP, subs spend most of their time just below surface, using their diesel engines (via a snorkel device that breaks the surface to take in air, and get rid of the engine exhaust.) Snorkels can be spotted by modern maritime patrol aircraft, and both nations are getting more of these. The introduction of the Agostas and Scorpenes was seen as an escalation in the naval arms race between Pakistan and India.

While India was largely concerned with the Pakistani navy when the Scorpene contract was negotiated and signed, China is now seen as the primary adversary. The Chinese subs are not as effective as the Pakistani boats, both because of less advanced technology, and less well trained crews. India could use their Scorpenes to confront any Chinese attempt to expand their naval presence into the Indian ocean. Thus the delays and cost overruns with the Scorpenes are causing quite a lot of commotion in India. But at the rate India is going, it will be nearly a decade before all six of the Scorpenes are in service. At that point, India would have about a dozen subs (including nuclear powered models under construction. China will have over 60 boats, about 20 percent of them nuclear.

 

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Chris       9/3/2009 11:03:48 AM
So the Indians have a defense project that is suffering from a 25% cost overrun.  By US standards - thats almost a good deal (sadly).
 
 
 
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pmukherjee    maybe   9/4/2009 2:29:07 PM
Maybe we really deserve the bureaucrats we have. Short of forcibly involving them in exchange of body fluids with AIDS infected aliens, I dont really see any way out.
 
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harpreet    Misleading article   9/5/2009 12:47:46 AM
All of Indian Kilos and U209 were acquired after 1986. I see no reason why they will be retired before 2016.  Even though the first Scorpene has been delayed, the project to fabricate 6 subs is likely to be complete by the scheduled date of 2017 as MDL has progressed to fabricate the second hull while contract issues for equiping the first one are sorted out.
PN on the other hand is burdened with over 30year old subs except the 3 new Agosta90b. Ideally their Agosta70s should be retired by now. Even if they sign the agreement for 3 U214 which they have been negotiating, the first sub will be delivered 64 months from signing of contract. So the first U214 will join PN in 2015 at the earliest. By 2017 PN will be having just 6 subs( 3 Agostas and 3 U214). 
IN by 2015 will have added atleast 3 Scorpenes and 3 of the Arihant class. Furthermore if IN chooses Russian Amur for the second line of submarine which has been planned, Amur can be delivered fairly quickly(36months) as Hindustan shipyard has already acquired Russian sub manufacturing facilities under the Arihant program. Therefore by 2017 IN is likely to induct 6 Scorpenes + 3-4 Amur + 3 Arihant + 1 Akula. 
Contrary to some more misleading reports Arihant has its propulsion in place. Since this series of 3 subs are already under delivery, IN can be expected to be working on the follow on SSN/SSBN designs that may begin delivery by 2017.
China sure has a larger submarine fleet which against popular perception is largely irrevelant in Indian context. Their SSK are unlikely to ever be deployed beyond their costal waters and almost certainly not in another ocean. Their limited SSN fleet is burdened with protection of their SSBNs. Even though their growth is a concern, IN wont be too far behind as Chinese SSN have only started spreading their legs.
 
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gf0012-aust       9/5/2009 4:09:40 AM
Their SSK are unlikely to ever be deployed beyond their costal waters and almost certainly not in another ocean. Their limited SSN fleet is burdened with protection of their SSBNs. Even though their growth is a concern, IN wont be too far behind as Chinese SSN have only started spreading their legs.
The chinese have been caught hacking indian subs and skimmers since 2004 near the andomans NS.  they've been out to guam in the last few years - and they regularly send out sniffers during the Talisman Saber exercises.  They've been caught in 3 bluewater areas already - and thats in the last 8 years.  Stating that they don't go in another "ocean" is therefore overconfident rubbish.  

They've got more transoceanic experience than the indians already - and they're certainly deploying way beyond the green.

The Indian Navy isn't underestimating them - it would behoove you not to as well. 

 
 
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Thomas       10/3/2009 5:28:13 PM

They've got more transoceanic experience than the indians already - and they're certainly deploying way beyond the green.
The Indian Navy isn't underestimating them - it would behoove you not to as well. 
My ignorant and uneducated guess is: The Aussies don't underestimate.
 
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gf0012-aust       10/3/2009 8:25:09 PM



My ignorant and uneducated guess is: The Aussies don't underestimate.
I'd be guessing that any professional military won't underestimate their opponents.  I've never met anyone at the planning level in a number of modern militaries who takes their opponent for granted.  there are too many instances in history where hubris bit a stronger force and its commander on the arse. :)
 
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