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Peruvian U-Boat Stalks the USN

July 16, 2009: For the fifth year, the U.S. Navy has trained with a diesel electric sub from a South American navy. This program, called DESI (Diesel Electric Submarine Initiative) hopes to eventually entice NATO navies to send one of their subs over for the exercise.

So far, DESI has provided 450 engagement days involving diesel electric subs maneuvering against American anti-submarine forces (air, surface and subsurface.) The exercises give the sub crews a realistic workout against the most modern ASW (anti-submarine warfare) equipment, and allows them to show how dangerous a diesel electric boat is when it's submerged and running on batteries. This year, the sub was the Peruvian Arica (SS-36). This is a German built Type 209, which is one of the more widely used diesel-electric subs in the world. The Arica displaces 1,300 tons, is 183 feet long, has eight torpedo tubes and carry 14 torpedoes and a crew of 36. The boat is 34 years old, but had a major overhaul in 1983-4.

 

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LB    Incomplete   7/16/2009 4:16:47 PM
The article might have mentioned that the USN used to normally train with NATO diesel subs.  The USN maintains far fewer ships in European waters and thus has less chance to train; moreover, NATO nations possess far less subs than they used to and are far less likely to deploy to American waters for joint training.  Indeed the USN's best partner, the RN, no longer operates conventional subs- or many SSNs either for that matter.
 
It's not as if the Brits and Dutch didn't like coming over to the Caribbean!  The fact that the USN does not have 4 or so conventional subs of it's own to train with is frankly ridiculous and has been since the last 3 were decommissioned without replacement in 1989/90.  It's entirely political in that the USN believes if it started operating diesel subs than the Congress would force them to operate less SSN's in favor of diesels.  While it's not an unwarranted fear it's past time getting over it given the need for training subs and some to operate in restricted waters like the Persian Gulf where a modern diesel would be quite useful.
 
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gf0012-aust       7/16/2009 5:18:59 PM
It might have also mentioned that the US has been increasing its conventional training and awareness over the years.  eg 6 US sub crew per rotation are assigned to Australian conventionals and that US submariners have regularly gone through Perisher (conventional) with the Dutch (as Teachers) and RNN and RAN as trainers.  

USN trains against conventionals regularly - in multiple ocean types where water temp and density do impact  upon the way that a local navy will fight.
 
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benellim4       7/16/2009 7:13:38 PM
It's cheaper to rent than to buy in this case. Imagine trying to create a training and logistical pipeline for a handful of boats. It would be large enough to be a burden without being large enough to draw on economies of scale.

I was there for the most recent exercise. It was interesting to see "blue forces" adapt to the threat. 
 
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albywan       7/16/2009 7:55:24 PM
GF,
 
Maybe Oz might like to position the Collins replacements with the USN as a convential training option...
 
already short on submariners, maybe a combined "ANZUS" crewed fleet could be investigated... (although NZ has trouble finding sufficient sailors for the Project Protector fleet...)
 
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RtWingCon    results?   7/16/2009 8:32:04 PM
Good points by all, but what was the outcome of the exercises? Was the USN up to the task/threat or is the USN's ASW in trouble when it comes to diesels? Comments?
 
 
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benellim4       7/16/2009 8:34:01 PM
The outcome is what you would expect...mixed. The strike group staffs and the crews of the ships learn, but then again, so does the crew of the submarine. 
 
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stbretnco       7/16/2009 8:39:04 PM
More than likely, there will never be enough information out in the open about the exercises to tell how they went.
 
 
 
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albywan       7/16/2009 9:35:12 PM

Good points by all, but what was the outcome of the exercises? Was the USN up to the task/threat or is the USN's ASW in trouble when it comes to diesels? Comments?

 



HMAS Rankin experienced considerable success in a exercise off Hawaii vs the USN...
 
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comatus       7/17/2009 2:26:16 AM
If they told you the results, wouldn't they then have to torpedo you?
 
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WarNerd       7/17/2009 6:45:54 PM
 
For the fifth year, the U.S. Navy has trained with a diesel electric sub from a South American navy.

I wonder how many of the countries participated are ones that are having problems with Hugo Chavez in Venezuela?
 
A sub and crew with training and experience to play with the US Navy could be a terrific force leveler and naval assassin if Chavez tries 'saber rattling' at sea.
 
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