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Iran Saves The 70mm Missile

September 19, 2009: Around the world, there are eight different development projects that are turning a 70mm (2.75 inch) rocket into a laser guided missile. Several of these are American efforts. Two years ago, one of these missiles, DAGR was declared ready for service, but the U.S. Department of Defense didn't respond with any orders.

DAGR (and it's competitors) would appear to be an ideal weapon, as it also uses the Hellfire fire control system. Lockheed-Martin developed DAGR with their own money. Another one of the U.S. efforts, by Raytheon, is actually financed by the UAE (United Arab Emirates), and that weapon, Talon, is being readied for use by UAE AH-64 helicopter gunships. Like DAGR, Talon is compatible with existing laser designators, and aircraft equipped to use Hellfire missiles. The UAE expects to test fire Talon from its AH-64Ds by the end of the year. Talon has already passed numerous flight and firing tests. The UAE expects Talon to enter service next year. The big advantage of Talon is that it is one fourth the weight of a Hellfire, and one fourth the cost. That means AH-64s burn less fuel carrying them, and the Talon is as effective as a Hellfire in destroying the hundreds of small armed boats Iran plans to use in any war with the Arab states on the west coast of the Persian Gulf.

Three years ago, the U.S. Army cancelled work on a similar effort, APKWS (Advanced Precision Kill Weapons System). All these weapons  are basically a 25 pound 70mm rocket, with a laser seeker, a six pound warhead and a range of about six kilometers. Laser designators on a helicopter, or with troops on the ground, are pointed at the target, and the laser seeker in the front of the DAGR homes on the reflected laser light. The guided 70mm rocker weighs about 30 pounds (the 70mm rocket plus the guidance package).

The 2.75 inch (70mm) rockets were developed during World War II as an air-to-air weapon for use against heavy bomber formations. The Germans had developed a similar, and very successful weapon (the R4M), but before long it was noted that neither the Japanese nor the Germans had any heavy bombers, so the U.S. 70mm rocket was switched to air-to-ground use. Actually, the 70mm rocket was retained for air-to-air use into the 1950s, but it was never successful in that role.

The 70mm rocket became very popular in the 1960s, when it was discovered that the weapon worked very well when launched from multiple (7 or 19 tube) launchers mounted on helicopters. The 42-55 inch long rockets could be fired singly or in salvoes, and gave helicopter pilots some airborne artillery for supporting troops on the ground. There are many variations in terms of warheads and rocket motors. Some versions can go over 10 kilometers.

Developing a guided 70mm rocket took so long because the manufacturers underestimated the technical difficulties of getting the laser seeker and flight control mechanisms into that small a package, at a weight and price the army could afford. The price of the DAGR is about $20,000 each (about a third less than a smart bomb, and much less than a Hellfire missile). The AKWS developer, BAE, believed it was close to perfecting AKWS, but Congress ran out of patience and money for it.

The guided 70mm rocker is to be used against targets that don't require a larger (hundred pound), and more expensive Hellfire missile, but still need some targeting precision. In tests, the APKWS hit within a few feet of the aiming point, and the DAGR and Talon are just as accurate. These missiles make an excellent weapon for UAVs, especially since you can carry four of them in place of one Hellfire. The launcher for DAGR is built to replace the one for Hellfire, but carry four missiles.

Apparently the orders for DAGR, and most similar weapons,  have not been forthcoming because the Hellfire is doing the job and there just isn't a big demand for a smaller missile.

 

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esmoore5       9/19/2009 6:54:40 PM
"Three years ago, the U.S. Army cancelled work on a similar effort, APKWS (Advanced Precision Kill Weapons System)." Perhaps this is because the Army is already buying Griffin. According to: link "U.S. Army has bought more 45-pound Griffin mini-missiles from Raytheon to arm - well, we're not sure, as not much has been said about the weapon." So something is going on in that area that the Army isn't talking about.
 
Quote    Reply

doggtag       9/20/2009 5:45:22 AM
There are so many of these in development right now in various countries,
or shifted to the backburner until the tech matures a little further to make it cost effective,
because so many companies and militaries are starting to see the obvious advantage it offers:
all those rocket pods and box launchers in service the world over that have always fired unguided rounds,
now can have access to making every round a precision munition, with the goal being to make these guidance units as an add-on device so the rockets aren't as expensive as a full-fledge PGM built from the ground up.
 
There are scores of 57mm, 68mm, 70mm, 80mm, and larger aircraft-deployed and land-based launchers that can benefit from this.
So far, laser guidance seems to be the "in" thing (DAGR, GATR-L, Cirit, TALON),
but R&D has also yielded IR-type seekers (LOGIR, for example).
Teleguided/electro-optical isn't far off anymore either, as digital camera technology improves by leaps and bounds thanks to the civilian sector's hunger for such portable media devices.
 
Now, instead of a combat helicopter carrying 4 pods each with 19 unguided rockets, we're near to having the potential of that now being 76 precision guided weapons.
 
Saw this one while browsing for good links to inssert into the recent COIN/crop duster thread about turboprop aircraft,
a machine gun pod from FN Herstal featuring not only their M3 machine gun (.50-cal firing at about 1000rpm), but also with three 70mm tubes underneath.
In unguided form, two underwing pods like this bring little more than nuisance value.
But turn each of those six rockets into PGMs, and that can bring a new level of capability, especially since you only have those six rounds.
 
Even more interesing is the DAGR, in which the Hellfire avionics and equipment can be used with the DAGR rocket, but instead of the launcher on a heicopter holding 4 Hellfires, each Hellfire station can be equipped with 4 DAGRs instead.
Seems like a little more refining of the interface designs is needed before we can use the actual 19-round pods that unguided rockets are currently fired from.
But if we can do precision guidance packages that do fit with 70mm diameter missile bodies,
then the tech to add full interfacing to standard unguided rocket pods so they can fire any variety of guidance-equipped rockets can't be that far off.
 
An even more well-organized aerticle on these precision rocket developments is available from DefenseIndustryDaily.Com.
 
If we really want small guided rockets, look no further than Spike from the Naval Air Warfare Center.
At barely two inches in diameter ( here also ), they don't come any smaller.
Compare the Spike's dimensions ( app 2" diam, 20" length ) to that of,
say, the unguided 66mm round from an M72 LAW ( 2.6" diam, 20" length ),
and we see that even the infantryman isn't far from getting portable precision capabilities in small form.
 
As far as no one in the Pentagon, nor other prominent western militaries' decision-making leadership,
putting further serious interest into these guided weapons: stupidity on their part.
The benefits surely outweigh any perceived additional costs.
These all offer some extra advantages that field units would definitely make great use of, solely because of the precision capability.
 
And all those recoilless rifle proponents have another egg to add to their basket if anyone considers that a precision guided round could also be developed for a number of RRs (80-120mm), including weapons like the Carl Gustav family (to include M136, AT4, AT8), USMC SMAW, and other man-portable antitank/anti-fortification weapons.
Looking at that flyweight Spike, it isn't hard to imagine the Russians or somebody eventually building a seeker-equipped 85mm RPG family of warheads.
 
Quote    Reply

jak267       9/21/2009 6:21:14 AM
There are tons of videos on Youtube of morons using Hellfires to kill terrorists. Guess what? There's an infinite supply of terrorists and they don't cost their bosses anything.
 
Quote    Reply

cwDeici       9/26/2009 6:06:51 AM

That's just stupid and untrue Jak. While stupid RoE makes it near impossible to outstrip the supply there is no such thing as infinite, only in your mind.
 
There are so many of these in development right now in various countries,

or shifted to the backburner until the tech matures a little further to make it cost effective,

because so many companies and militaries are starting to see the obvious advantage it offers:

all those rocket pods and box launchers in service the world over that have always fired unguided rounds,

now can have access to making every round a precision munition, with the goal being to make these guidance units as an add-on device so the rockets aren't as expensive as a full-fledge PGM built from the ground up.

 

There are scores of 57mm, 68mm, 70mm, 80mm, and larger aircraft-deployed and land-based launchers that can benefit from this.

So far, laser guidance seems to be the "in" thing (DAGR, GATR-L, Cirit, TALON),

but R&D has also yielded IR-type seekers (LOGIR, for example).

Teleguided/electro-optical isn't far off anymore either, as digital camera technology improves by leaps and bounds thanks to the civilian sector's hunger for such portable media devices.

 

Now, instead of a combat helicopter carrying 4 pods each with 19 unguided rockets, we're near to having the potential of that now being 76 precision guided weapons.

 

Saw this one while browsing for good links to inssert into the recent COIN/crop duster thread about turboprop aircraft,

a machine gun pod from FN Herstal featuring not only their M3 machine gun (.50-cal firing at about 1000rpm), but also with three 70mm tubes underneath.

In unguided form, two underwing pods like this bring little more than nuisance value.

But turn each of those six rockets into PGMs, and that can bring a new level of capability, especially since you only have those six rounds.

 

Even more interesing is the DAGR, in which the Hellfire avionics and equipment can be used with the DAGR rocket, but instead of the launcher on a heicopter holding 4 Hellfires, each Hellfire station can be equipped with 4 DAGRs instead.

Seems like a little more refining of the interface designs is needed before we can use the actual 19-round pods that unguided rockets are currently fired from.

But if we can do precision guidance packages that do fit with 70mm diameter missile bodies,

then the tech to add full interfacing to standard unguided rocket pods so they can fire any variety of guidance-equipped rockets can't be that far off.

 

An even more well-organized aerticle on these precision rocket developments is available from DefenseIndustryDaily.Com.

 

If we really want small guided rockets, look no further than Spike from the Naval Air Warfare Center.

At barely two inches in diameter ( here also ), they don't come any smaller.

Compare the Spike's dimensions ( app 2" diam, 20" length ) to that of,

say, the unguided 66mm round from an M72 LAW ( 2.6" diam, 20" length ),

and we see that even the infantryman isn't far from getting portable precision capabilities in small form.

 

As far as no one in the Pentagon, nor other prominent western militaries' decision-making leadership,

putting further serious interest into these guided weapons: stupidity on their part.

The benefits surely outweigh any perceived additional costs.

These all offer some extra advantages that field units would definitely make great use of, solely because of the precision capability.

 

And all those recoilless rifle proponents have another egg to add to their basket if anyone considers that a precision guided round could also be developed for a number of RRs (80-120mm), including weapons like the Carl Gustav family (to include M136, AT4, AT8), USMC SMAW, and other man-portable antitank/anti-fortification weapons.

Looking at that flyweight Spike, it isn't hard to imagine the Russians or somebody eventually building a seeker-equipped 85mm RPG family of warheads.

Great article! I learnt something. :)
76 is a great number! Do the Apaches really need that many though? From my experience with simulator games and reading about news reports, they won't... but might someday (especially if the RoE are significantly relaxed).
 
Quote    Reply

cwDeici       9/26/2009 6:08:20 AM
Or if there's a big war.
 
Quote    Reply

doggtag       9/26/2009 3:34:44 PM

...76 is a great number! Do the Apaches really need that many though? From my experience with simulator games and reading about news reports, they won't... but might someday (especially if the RoE are significantly relaxed).
"Need" is such a misnomer.
A lot aircraft have a maximum load capability, but that doesn't mean that they "need"  to always carry that much: it just gives them more options as to what and how many bits of ordnance they can carry.
 
For the Apaches,
there's somewhere a mission load out chart that was written suggesting how many cannon rounds, unguided rockets, and/or Hellfires to carry for a typical mission.
When I first saw it ages ago, it was written under the assumption it would be NATO/Warsaw Pact scenarios, not desert fighting against insurgents who almost never have capable armored vehicles.
I can't recall offhand any scenarios that suggested the total cannon magazine capacity filled to it brim with 1200rounds maximum in addition to a full load of 16 Hellfires (4 quads) or 76 rockets (four 19-round pods).
 
But there again,
even though we see range claims of around 5km or so for these guided 70mm rockets,
it needs to be considered that there are several rocket motor designs out there along with numerous warhead types and weights, and the combinations of such will affect actual range.
 
There are some 70mm designs that are suggested to reach as far as 15km (just over 9 miles).
But these aren't the most widespread, a more common range capability of 5-10km is more typical.
 
Still, there aren't a lot of well-trained insurgents out there with the training and capability
to do anti-aircraft at those ranges,
so these guided 70mm rockets certainly have a usefulness,
especially considering that you don't need the Hellfire's 20+pound warhead
to smash up technicals (armed pickup trucks, etc).
 
There's a great deal of info on US 2.75" rocketry over at Designation-Systems.Net,
and one of my more favorite foreign systems is the Brazilian Avibras Skyfire 70, because it can also be a land-based artillery system (claiming up to 12km range in surface-to-surface mode. High altitude air-launching should be greater, making such weapons perfect for UAVs).


 
 
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