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Subject: ROKN Patrol Corvette sucken by DPRK torpedo boat
YelliChink    3/26/2010 12:10:07 PM
Just happened 2150 Korean local time. Chinese reports say that it was DPRK torpedo boat. The ROKN corvette sunk is probably a 1200t PCC. I can't read Korean so I am not sure which one exactly. At this moment, 59 out of 104 crew have been saved so far. Best wishes to the still missing ones and condolence to families of lost sailors.
 
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sinoflex    Another Perspective   4/26/2010 12:41:02 AM
Bearing in mind that Kim Jun-il has pancreatic cancer, his days as a major irritant are soon to end.  Which is not to say that the DPRK will not continue to be a burden on regional stability.  However it is possible that this is part of a campaign to elevate his prestige amongst the ruling elite with the goal of assuring his son's succession as ruler.  My 2 cents for what it's worth.
 
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Hamilcar       4/26/2010 1:11:56 AM
His son, then, needs to pay for the father's sins.
 
H.
 
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Mikko       4/26/2010 6:59:49 AM
The more one thinks this particular setup, the two Koreas and the immoral power addicts that rule the North, the more I think there should be an international diplomatic case study going on. Something that starts with "This is what happens when.."
 
How does one get to a situation like this!? This is insane, chaotic, lacking anything even remotely rational. How can someone be so out of touch with reality as NorK is now. So out of touch that they sink ships AND make claims AND yet clearly don't want escalation.
 
Where in the hell are the heroes over there? When does one single brave officer pull his Makarov and pop the foreheads of the selected few and plunge the country into a cleansing state of total collapse?
 
I don't know, all this is so frustrating to witness. Looking at this wounded and bleeding animal attacking anyone who tries to help, and denying its own state of slow death. The intuitive solution would be a thermonuclear one; a quick decapitation with international support and then rebuild. Intuitive, inplausible and stupid.
 
How can it be that the rest of the world is powerless in the face of idiocy of this caliber.. How inefficient and useless is the field of diplomacy if even things this evident can't be solved?
 
Just letting out some steam.
 
M
 
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YelliChink       4/26/2010 10:24:52 AM

How does one get to a situation like this!? This is insane, chaotic, lacking anything even remotely rational. How can someone be so out of touch with reality as NorK is now. So out of touch that they sink ships AND make claims AND yet clearly don't want escalation.
 

Where in the hell are the heroes over there? When does one single brave officer pull his Makarov and pop the foreheads of the selected few and plunge the country into a cleansing state of total collapse?


M


On the first paragraph: welcome to the real world.
On the second paragraph: because their family members are also going to be murdered had they dared to do so.
 
What you don't seem to understand is that dictatorship is a dragon. However, unlike the one in Beowulf, if you cut the head off theisdragon, two other grow out of the bleeding neck and launching fireball at you.

 
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jhpigott       4/26/2010 12:13:02 PM
April 26, 2010

A North Korean torpedo attack was the most likely cause for the sinking of a South Korean warship last month, according to a U.S. military official.

The United States believes the ship was sunk by the blast of an underwater explosion, but that the explosive device itself did not come in contact with the hull of the South Korean ship, the official said. This is the same conclusion expressed by South Korean military officials.

The U.S. Navy has an investigative team assisting the South Koreans.

The U.S. official declined to be named because of the sensitivity of the matter and due to the fact neither South Korea or the United States has publicly discussed any potential response.

The 1,200 ton corvette Cheonan was split in half by the blast on March 26.

Forty of Cheonan's 104 crew members have now been confirmed dead, and six

more are also believed dead, though they are still listed as missing.

Fifty eight others were rescued before the vessel sank.

The Korea Times is reporting a Chinese developed Type EO-3G torpedo may have been the weapon used. It is said to have the homing capability to hit a ship after tracking the vessel's screws acoustically. U.S. Navy warships are equipped with sophisticated sensors and acoustic technology aimed at tracking such threats.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/04/26/u-s-official-n-korea-torpedo-likely-sunk-s-korean-warship/

- - - - - - - - - - - -

I believe this is the first instance where a US official (unnamed or otherwise) has publically blamed N.K. for the sinking of the Cheonan

 
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Mikko       4/26/2010 12:22:05 PM




How does one get to a situation like this!? This is insane, chaotic, lacking anything even remotely rational. How can someone be so out of touch with reality as NorK is now. So out of touch that they sink ships AND make claims AND yet clearly don't want escalation.


Where in the hell are the heroes over there? When does one single brave officer pull his Makarov and pop the foreheads of the selected few and plunge the country into a cleansing state of total collapse?

M

On the first paragraph: welcome to the real world.

On the second paragraph: because their family members are also going to be murdered had they dared to do so.

What you don't seem to understand is that dictatorship is a dragon. However, unlike the one in Beowulf, if you cut the head off theisdragon, two other grow out of the bleeding neck and launching fireball at you.
I do understand that dictatorship is not one man, but a network of officials and officers who - if able to form strong enough cliques after passing of numbers one and two - can always salvage the power structure. The dictator lives also in the system he creates; in the appointed generals and other strongmen who in this case probably weren't chosen for their love for their people.
 
But here's a solution model: South Korea, Japan and friends could throw in a few billion dollars to solve this thing peacefully. One billion would be used to establish and deliver a message and four billion would be used to bribe two thousand generals and senior officials with a sum of two million dollars each, plus granted immunity and protection to them and their families. Five million dollars extra to the guy who pulls the trigger.

Full payment delivered in gold, real estate or South Korean government bonds after Pyongyang has been handed over. A hundred dollars bonus to an officer for each surrending military member under his command (a division commander could see himself as a millionaire). Five dollars for each rifle or handgun; fifty for each lock of a howitzer or field gun. Five thousand dollars for each recorded demolition of an ammo dump or a stronghold.
 
Tanks-for-homes program could promise a modern home for each tank crew that would drive through the DMZ (through specifically opened routes) with their tank, cannon pointed north all the time to signal intent. Home&car for jets would guarantee a home and a Huyndai for each fighter pilot who flew his plane individually to a certain airbase in the south, signifying its intent in some previously communicated manner.
 
A hundred thousand dollars divided by guards who let their prisoners walk free, no matter what the prison was for.
 
You get the point. If you can prove it and it dissolves the chain of command, pay for it. Create an atmosphere of total mistrust and greed. I bet this is an old idea in general but now that I'm at it...
 
M
 
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Hamilcar       4/26/2010 1:44:46 PM
The Korea Times is reporting a Chinese developed Type EO-3G torpedo may have been the weapon used. It is said to have the homing capability to hit a ship after tracking the vessel's screws acoustically. U.S. Navy warships are equipped with sophisticated sensors and acoustic technology aimed at tracking such threats.
 
?????????????????????????????????????????????
 
I know that as the ET-32, or the export version of the Yu-3.  I am not sure that is correct.
 
  • Diameter: 533 mm
  • Length: 6.6 meter
  • Weight: 1.34 ton
  • Warhead: 190 kg
  • Guidance: active/passive acoustic homing
  • Propulsion: electrical, silver-zinc battery
  • Range: 13,000 m.
  • Speed: 18 m/s
  • Depth: up to 350 meters
  • Gyro: up to 170 degrees
 H.
 
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SantaClaws       4/26/2010 5:11:28 PM
Looking back on history it is unlikely Korea will have a full military response. They ignored the bombing of their airlines and the attempted assasination on their president. I can't really balme them either. War should only be pursued if the cost of peace is greater. Even if you tally up all the losses over the years, it's not going to come close to the tens of thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands of civilians in Seoul who are going to die if war breaks out. That doesn't even count military casualties.
 
If Korea goes to war they are pretty much doing it on their own. The most the US can do is give air assets and maybe a few BCTs. We're already stretched thin across Iraq and Afghan and I don't even think it's possible for us to open a third front. I'm sure NK probably had this in mind before doing this operation. I don't think Japan's constitution allows them to help SK in a war, either. So, if SK does go to war it will be doing the majority of the ground fighting on their own. Granted the war wouldn't be long but I'd guess that the civilian casualties would be enormous.
 
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DarthAmerica       4/26/2010 11:46:29 PM
By Kim Young-gyo
HONG KONG, April 26 (Yonhap) -- The United States is prepared to take action if the sinking of a South Korean warship is linked to North Korea, a senior U.S. diplomat said Monday.

   Assistant Secretary of State Kurt Campbell did not elaborate, but U.S. officials have expressed support for further United Nations sanctions, as proposed by South Korean Foreign Minister Yu Myung-hwan.

   North Korea is already under sanctions for its nuclear and missile tests last year.

   "We will diagnose the cause of the tragic incident and address the issue accordingly," Campbell said, referring to the March 26 sinking of the 1,200-ton corvette Cheonan, which killed 40 South Korean sailors and left six others missing near the Korean maritime border. "We express thoughts and prayers to the Korean people."

   South Korean Defense Minister Kim Tae-young said Saturday that a torpedo attack is the most likely cause of the sinking, but stopped short of blaming North Korea.

   Campbell was in Hong Kong on Monday, giving a dinner speech at a media conference hosted by the U.S. East-West Center for international journalists.

   "We are also gratified South Korea has asked us to work closely with them. I believe the multinational working relationships are excellent," the senior diplomat said. "We are still (in the middle) of the investigation, and no formal conclusion has been reached. We will as we move forward."

   The U.S. has sent 14 military and civilian investigators to help probe the cause of the sinking, part of a team that includes South Korea, Australia and Sweden.

   Campbell also said he has asked China to play a role.

   "We explained our role in taking recovery efforts and encouraged China to play a responsible role," he said to reporters here after the speech. "China expressed deep concerns for the loss of life and the tragedy. I think they are watching carefully in terms of how this process is playing out."

   In his speech, Campbell emphasized the growing role played by the Group of 20 advanced and emerging economies.

   "One of the most important institutional innovations is G-20," he said. "G-20 is a reflection of a fundamental change in the architecture of the planet, in the sense of how we think about the importance of high level symmetry in engagement."

   Unlike G-8, which was "essentially a European institution," he said, "Fully half of the members in G-20 are from the Asian-Pacific region, including new players like India, Indonesia and South Korea."

   Campbell said he expects the G-20 could evolve into a global governance system that can also deal with political and diplomatic issues.

   "The United States played an important role in seeing this institution coming into being," he said. "We are grateful that this will play a role as probably the dominant institutional framework not only for global economic issues -- commercial and financial issues, but for increasingly political issues as we go forward."
 
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Hamilcar    Meaningless noise.   4/27/2010 12:01:59 AM
Is all that is.
 
H.
 
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