Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Korea Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: ROKN Patrol Corvette sucken by DPRK torpedo boat
YelliChink    3/26/2010 12:10:07 PM
Just happened 2150 Korean local time. Chinese reports say that it was DPRK torpedo boat. The ROKN corvette sunk is probably a 1200t PCC. I can't read Korean so I am not sure which one exactly. At this moment, 59 out of 104 crew have been saved so far. Best wishes to the still missing ones and condolence to families of lost sailors.
 
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
Reactive    Re:   4/8/2010 8:23:02 PM
Regarding my last post^^ Although that's quite some operation to pull off... It's hard to really make any more judgements about this other than the failure mode being one of two flavours.
 
I think for the time-being there's no more evidence to go on without getting into rampant speculation (as above) territory.
 
guess it's up to the USN to piece things together now, they certainly have the capability to sift the seabed for the tiniest remnants, and that's probably a capability the ROK doesn't appear to have.
 
R
 
Quote    Reply

Reactive       4/8/2010 8:27:01 PM
As for the Italians, I have worked with and represented Italians in highly advanced technical matters, some military, over nearly two decades.  The Italians can be world-beaters in high technology and mathematics.  Unfortunately my experience also has been that they do not shy away from poaching the solutions of others -- in this respect I would compare them to the Chinese, again based on personal anecdote.
 
 
Exactly, and in some instances poached (quite literally) from the chinese (pasta from noodles).
 
I wonder if this will end up with an argument about spaghetti..

Apologies, this is about as O/T as it gets.. 
 
Quote    Reply

Reactive    : * (    4/8/2010 8:32:30 PM
The Chinese were eating noodles made of millet as long ago as 2000 BC. This has been suggested by the discovery of a well-preserved bowl of millet noodles over 4000 years old.[14] However, durum wheat was not known in China until later times. The familiar legend of Marco Polo importing pasta from China[15] originated with the Macaroni Journal, published by an association of food industries with the goal of promoting the use of pasta in the United States.[16] Marco Polo describes a food similar to "lagana" in his Travels, but he uses a term with which he was already familiar. Durum wheat, and thus pasta as it is known today, was introduced by Arabs during their conquest of Sicily in the late 7th century, according to the newsletter of the National Macaroni Manufacturers Association,[17] thus predating Marco Polo's travels to China by about six centuries.
 
Quote    Reply

Hamilcar    The reason to not outrun the evidence....   4/8/2010 8:52:31 PM
is that if by some strange circumstance it is an accidental event, we don't all sound like raving loons. So I have not come out and said what I "believe", but tested each hypothesis as presented in the light of current evidence and categorized as to probability.
 
The breakup photos fits one class of weapon effects, and one set of accidents.
 
The explosion cause agent is now the only missing piece of evidence.
 
I await the motor fragments of the alleged device, (if any) and the raised hull sections. I want to know what caused that snap at that particular point in the hull.

H.
 
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

VelocityVector    Why Not Outrun The Evidence   4/8/2010 9:25:18 PM

The reason to not outrun the evidence is that if by some strange circumstance it is an accidental event, we don't all sound like raving loons.

Not my concern on SP and the like.  If there is one space wherein I can speculate then it would be here.  Essentially I use SP for speculation, wargaming, photos and rants.  That's about it.

What accident could have caused Cheonan to sheer given the data?

So I have not come out and said what I "believe", but tested each hypothesis as presented in the light of current evidence and categorized as to probability.

I have, obviously.  Pohans are amenable to fratricide but given regional tensions one might expect greater disclosure regarding possible inadvertent weapons releases and they are nowhere to be viewed.  Cheonan was not on alert prior to the event.  Depth charges may clear their shackles accidently, however, I believe we have ruled that prospect out, and surface ship torpedos do not launch and arm unless somebody authorized release for them.  Without run data a modern torpedo does nothing, it does not arm its warhead even if the props spin.
 
The breakup photos fits one class of weapon effects, and one set of accidents.
 
The explosion cause agent is now the only missing piece of evidence.

with the passage of time, ascertaining "the" cause diminishes.  Quite possibly according to plan.  Since conclusions can have future real world effects, there may be legitimate reasons for suppression of information.
 
I await the motor fragments of the alleged device, (if any) and the raised hull sections. I want to know what caused that snap at that particular point in the hull.

Me too.  Yet actual cause may never be divulged, even if known.  I am open to all possibilities that include a weapon in the loop.  Earth gas discharge etc.?  Not.  My admitted bias here on SP.

Not going to address spaghetti and its origins.  For now ;>)  (relevance -- propellant grains and extruded products)

v^2

 
Quote    Reply

Reactive       4/8/2010 9:49:21 PM

The reason to not outrun the evidence is that if by some strange circumstance it is an accidental event, we don't all sound like raving loons.


Not my concern on SP and the like.  If there is one space wherein I can speculate then it would be here.  Essentially I use SP for speculation, wargaming, photos and rants.  That's about it.

Yeah that's kind of how I feel... It's of no moment to the bigger picture.. And so far we've at least been ahead of the curve in ruling things in/out here... Which I think is testament to the rather pleasant lack of trolls (has FS been banned??)
 

What accident could have caused Cheonan to sheer given the data?


So I have not come out and said what I "believe", but tested each hypothesis as presented in the light of current evidence and categorized as to probability.


I have, obviously.  Pohans are amenable to fratricide but given regional tensions one might expect greater disclosure regarding possible inadvertent weapons releases and they are nowhere to be viewed.  Cheonan was not on alert prior to the event.  Depth charges may clear their shackles accidently, however, I believe we have ruled that prospect out, and surface ship torpedos do not launch and arm unless somebody authorized release for them.  Without run data a modern torpedo does nothing, it does not arm its warhead even if the props spin.

And given the location of the torp tubes (aft), and the point of sheer being about 20-30' in front of this , you can bet they're going to rule this out, even if the seismic data didn't (Magnitude 1.5, Equivalence~200kg TNT vs 50kg for the MK.46).
 


The breakup photos fits one class of weapon effects, and one set of accidents.

 

The explosion cause agent is now the only missing piece of evidence.


with the passage of time, ascertaining "the" cause diminishes.  Quite possibly according to plan.  Since conclusions can have future real world effects, there may be legitimate reasons for suppression of information.
 
Judging by the pained efforts of govt officials to assure global credit assessors that the ROK economy is not likely to be adversely affected (presumably some gentle reassurances as to reprecussions) and their general behaviour thus far, you can bet they're going to try and avoid rocking any boats, so to speak..


 

I await the motor fragments of the alleged device, (if any) and the raised hull sections. I want to know what caused that snap at that particular point in the hull.


Me too.  Yet actual cause may never be divulged, even if known.  I am open to all possibilities that include a weapon in the loop.  Earth gas discharge etc.?  Not.  My admitted bias here on SP.
 
It's got to be a torpedo, effectively deploying a single mine in a regularly travelled waterway to such purposefully devestating effect seems quite incalculably improbable.

Not going to address spaghetti and its origins.  For now ;>)  (relevance -- propellant grains and extruded products)

No doubt the truth is too awful to imagine..
 

v^2



 
Quote    Reply

Hamilcar    Well.....   4/8/2010 10:38:59 PM
Let's see how close some of us actually analyzed this.  
 
I suggested the three likely types of fish that could be used, IF it was a torpedo.
 
I am confident that the DPRK had to import the type I believe that could be used to solve the range/interval problems involved in the torpedo theory..
 
And I still have not ruled out the bottom mine or an accident. Being hoisted by your own petard cannot be ruled out yet.
 
H. 
 
 
Quote    Reply

gf0012-aust       4/8/2010 11:41:04 PM


The explosion cause agent is now the only missing piece of evidence.


the shape and deformations of the bent bits happy snapped by the videoray will be more than a clue to this.

 
Quote    Reply

Hamilcar       4/9/2010 1:34:37 AM





The explosion cause agent is now the only missing piece of evidence.






the shape and deformations of the bent bits happy snapped by the videoray will be more than a clue to this.



Were you part of that 2008 Tampa exercise?

H.
 
Quote    Reply

Hamilcar    Politics.   4/9/2010 11:51:25 PM
 
Korea
     Apr 10, 2010
 
http://www.clintonbushhaitifund.org/">

http://www.atimes.com/images/f_images/spacer15.gif" alt="" width="15" height="15" />
http://www.atimes.com/images/f_images/spacer15.gif" alt="" width="15" />
The Cheonan cover-up
By Aidan Foster-Carter

It's now almost two weeks since the Republic of Korea navy corvette Cheonan mysteriously exploded and sank close to Baengnyeong, South Korea's northwestern-most island, late on Friday night, March 26. Fifty-eight of its 104 man crew were swiftly plucked from the chilly waters, but 46 drowned - although only two bodies had been found as of April 8.

Since then 10 more have died: one navy diver, and nine fishermen on a boat commandeered to help the search after it was apparently in collision with a Cambodian-registered freighter. The original explosion was powerful enough to tear this substantial vessel - 88 meters long, 1,200 tonnes - in half. Strong currents, which are still hampering investigations, swept the bow section fully six kilometers southeastward from the stern. Fortunately

http://www.atimes.net">http://cdn5.tribalfusion.com/media/2008606.gif" alt="" border="0" width="336" height="280" />
  

both are in fairly shallow waters; meaning salvage of the wreck should be feasible though may take weeks.

So what happened? Summoned to a BBC studio for instant punditry, still
 
Quote    Reply



 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics