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Subject: Modify the B-17 into night bomber/low altatude streak bomber?
45-Shooter    2/14/2013 3:55:59 PM
Given the multiple lines of debate; B-17 Vs Lancaster Vs Mossy, I post the following question; To convert the B-17 from a day bomber into a night/streak bomber, remove the top, bottom and chin turrets, remove the waist and cheek guns and gunners, relocate the flight deck to just behind the bombadier's space so that there is onlythree or four crew! Install large spinners on the props and install a single 20 mm auto-cannon on a flexible "X" bow mount in the plexi nose. Reduction in frontal area, weight and increases in streamlinning make flight both much faster and much more efficient! Since there is room for four 4,000 pound MC bombs in the bomb bay, the shakles should be modified to hold those four heavy bombs if the larger shakle does not fit now. Otherwise eight 2,000 pound bombs should be the standard load. Given the 210-220 knot cruising speed of the Mossy required to make the placard range, the new faster B-17N/S should offer more of everything that makes the Mossy so neat?
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oldbutnotwise       8/3/2013 1:24:14 PM
See the links in the two above posts to see the pics of Lanc bomb bay and it's true size and the link to the B-17G Pilot's Manual showing a internal load of 12,800 pounds! So id those three links prove their core arguments wrong, how much of the rest are wrong?
that manual shows that it could only carry 2x2000lbs can you not read that? yes it could carry 8x1600AP bombs as they were quite small O/S dia and that's the killer, yet you persist with your stupid claims that have no basis in fact
finially you provide evidence, I will not dispute the fact that it could carry 12600 lbs if you use the 1800lbs bombs,
Actually it is 1,600 pound bombs, four on each side of the internal bomb bay. Note that there were numerous other options listed that come out to more than 8,000 pounds internally.
no they don't, only the 1600lbs comes out over 9000lbs and only the 600lbs makes it over the 8000lbs which is not surprising as it was slighter smaller than the 500lbs gp
however that SAME source clearly says that you can only carry 2x2000lbs internally and no 4000lbs iternally so will you admit that you are wroing in this your orginial claim? You are wrong about that 2000 pounder limit! It lists four times 2000 pounders.
no it doesn't READ it, it clearly says under the INTERNAL load 2000lbs and 1000lbs TWO OF EACH
 But because it does not list a 4000 pound option, does not mean it can not be done, just that it was not done!
and just because it does not mention the 4000lbs does not mean it can be done, in fact all reports do not mention it, it can be assumed that was not regarded as a possibility (it is mentioned as an EXTERNAL load and yet it that was never done but it is specified)
oh and it also shows that it could orginial claim of what was it 34 500lbs was also wrong
I got that from a public picture of a formation of three B-17s showing 440 pound incendiaries, easily recognized by their flat nose with bump and showing 34 of them in each string! That is 34 X 440 pounds = 14,960 pounds total.
firstly the 440lbs incendiary is a figment of your imagination no such bomb was used by the USAAF, secondly the closest to that was the AN-M17A1 of which a B17 could only carry 16 (but cannot find any reference that has more than 8 of these carried at anyone time) we have been though this before and you could not support your claim then and it would seem you still cant, this picture needs to be produced if we are to take you seriously
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oldbutnotwise       8/3/2013 1:35:31 PM oh yes you never let a little thing like facts get in the way of your own ideas do you!In this picture, it clearly shows three 1000 pounders barely fit across the width of the bay. The British 1000 pounder is only 15" in diameter by 65" LOA!
I think I may have figured out where you are going wrong here, the 1000lbs GP was 15inch, however the 1000lbs MC  bomb shown here is 18" the 1000lbs GP was obsolete by 1941 and was only carried during shortages of the MC bomb as it was found to be particularly ineffective

5, why would buldged bay door restrict the amount of 2000lbs carried?I never said that it did. I stated that it was restricted WO the bulged doors!
yet you haven't managed to explain how they did it (I am also waiting for a picture of the Lanc bomb bay with a indentation for the 4000lbs
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oldbutnotwise       8/6/2013 8:10:39 AM
states the bomb dia, I was .25 inches out
I think I found his picture of a B17 dropping bombs he keeps quoting
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