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Subject: nil-nil in Tel Aviv
sofa    3/25/2007 3:16:07 PM
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sofa    dump McClaren   3/25/2007 3:16:54 PM
Israel 0-0 England
England manager Steve McClarenhttp://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42724000/jpg/_42724461_mcclaren203.jpg" width=203 border=0>
McClaren looks despondent after yet another poor performance
 
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EssexBoy    McClaren   3/26/2007 2:31:13 PM
I have some sympathy with McClaren as he is clearly out of his depth and must be wondering what the hell is happening. His major problem, which has been clear since the last world cup, is that we only have one genuinely world class player (Rooney) and he hasn't performed for England since 2004.
 
Apart from him we have a group of talented players who do not seem able to perform in internationals (Gerrad, Lampard, Ferdinand and, to a lesser extent, Terry, G Neville, J Cole and A Cole), some good domestic league players who aren't international class (Downing, Carragher, P Neville, Hargreaves, Johnson (possibly a bit harsh as he's hardly had a chance) Defoe, Robinson, Bent, Bridge, Parker, Crouch, and Young , plus two promising youngsters (Lennon and Barry).
 
In general I think McClaren picks the right squad but what mystifies me is his team selection and use of substitutes. If we just look at the team for the Israel game there were several oddities:
 
1 - Aaron Lennon
 
Fast, dangerous, one footed and plays on the right for Spurs. So Maclaren played him on the left instead of picking Stuart Downing who is left footed and plays on the left for Middlesborough. This allowed him to play Steven Gerrard (out of position) at right midfield and meant he didn't have to drop the underperforming Lampard.
 
2 - Jamie Carragher
 
An excellent central defender, if a bit slow for international football. So McClaren played him at left back instead of Gareth Barry who plays left back for Villa. Can you see a pattern emerging here?
 
3 - Phil Neville
 
Used to be a full back but couldn't hold down a place in that position. Now employed by Everton as a defensive midfielder. McClaren picked him at right back instead of Luke Young who does play in the Premiership as a right back.
 
Turning now to the substitutions. In the second half we were dominating possession but not looking remotely dangerous. So what did McClaren do? He took off the only player who had stretched the Israelis (Lennon) and replaced him with Downing. Why didn't he take off Lampard, push Gerrard into the middle, switch Lennon to the right and put Downing on the left? We needed to win that game! Finally, he took off Johnson (who was working hard and getting no service) and replaced him with Defoe, leaving the ineffective and red-card-waiting-to-happen Rooney to get into arguments with the defenders. How on earth was that going to make us more dangerous when the problem was clearly with our supply to the forwards?
 
I didn't get anywhere near playing professional football (in fact I didn't get anywhere near playing for the sort of teams that the talent scouts watch) so perhaps I ought to keep my ill-informed opinions to myself. Then again I'm a paying punter so I'll shoot my mouth off like everybody else.:-)
 
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interestedamateur       3/27/2007 3:09:02 PM
I always liked Sven and Becks - I thought both were unfairly blamed for the World Cup debacle. If Rooney had not got sent off against Portugal we might have got through.
 
I also believe McClaren is out of his depth - I never felt his club management record justified him at all for the England role. In particular I have no idea why Lampard is still in the team (a mistake that Sven also made) as he continually underperforms - Gerrard should be in the centre instead.
 
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sofa       3/27/2007 8:09:51 PM

Managerial stats

Team Nat From To Record
G W L D Win %
Middlesbrough Flag of Englandhttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/Flag_of_England_%28bordered%29.svg/22px-Flag_of_England_%28bordered%29.svg.png" width=22 longDesc=/wiki/Image:Flag_of_England_%28bordered%29.svg> June 12, 2001 May 11, 2006 250 97 93 60 38.80
England Flag of Englandhttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/Flag_of_England_%28bordered%29.svg/22px-Flag_of_England_%28bordered%29.svg.png" width=22 longDesc=/wiki/Image:Flag_of_England_%28bordered%29.svg> August 1, 2006 March 26, 2007 8 3 2 3 37.50
 
Based on his phenomenal record at Middlesbrough .... why oh why?
 
 
 
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sofa    3-0 over Andorra, just barely, after woeful first half   3/28/2007 8:24:59 PM
Essexboy - Your observations for match v. Israel are spot on.
 
When this bum is canned - Will you consider this yank?
I have a US coaching license, and a better coaching record than McClaren.
(although no Carling Cup)
Also, I never worked for Sven.
 
-------------
espnsoccernet
 
Steven Gerrard made sure England avoided one of the most embarrassing draws in history after his second-half goals gave Steve McClaren's men a much-needed 3-0 win over Andorra. The Liverpool skipper netted twice to give England all three points, after a woeful first-half, to ease the pressure on the squad. David Nugent poached a late goal on his debut to give the scoreline a flattering look. 
 
 
 
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EssexBoy    Andorra game   3/29/2007 1:58:04 PM
It's often said that one of the benefits of being an armchair manager is that your team selections never have to face the opposition. Unfortunately for me McClaren picked exactly team I was hoping he'd pick - and they were utterly shit. I think I shall refrain from any further football related rants and go back to watching the game in misery and near silence (my usual state at Upton Park). :-(
 
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EssexBoy    Head coach Sofa   3/29/2007 2:06:52 PM
If you have a UEFA recognised coaching badge you'll be ahead of most of the English contenders. I wouldn't bother though if I were you; we have a rather inflated view of our position in world football and you may find the expectations a little hard to meet given the mediocrity of the talent at your disposal.
 
I doubt if it's ever been shown in the US, but if you can get hold of a copy of the Channel 4 documentary "An impossible job" take a look. It's a painfully funny portrait of a decent man (Graham Taylor) out of his depth.
 
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Armchair Private       3/29/2007 5:58:05 PM

Essexboy - Your observations for match v. Israel are spot on.

 


When this bum is canned - Will you consider this yank?


I have a US coaching license, and a better coaching record than McClaren.

(although no Carling Cup)

Also, I never worked for Sven.

 

-------------

espnsoccernet

 

Steven Gerrard made sure England avoided one of the most embarrassing draws in history after his second-half goals gave Steve McClaren's men a much-needed 3-0 win over Andorra. The Liverpool skipper netted twice to give England all three points, after a woeful first-half, to ease the pressure on the squad. David Nugent poached a late goal on his debut to give the scoreline a flattering look. 

 

 

Sofa - you've go my vote, my only fear is that you're over qualified.

 
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Armchair Private       3/29/2007 6:07:37 PM

I have some sympathy with McClaren as he is clearly out of his depth and must be wondering what the hell is happening. His major problem, which has been clear since the last world cup, is that we only have one genuinely world class player (Rooney) and he hasn't performed for England since 2004.

 

Apart from him we have a group of talented players who do not seem able to perform in internationals (Gerrad, Lampard, Ferdinand and, to a lesser extent, Terry, G Neville, J Cole and A Cole), some good domestic league players who aren't international class (Downing, Carragher, P Neville, Hargreaves, Johnson (possibly a bit harsh as he's hardly had a chance) Defoe, Robinson, Bent, Bridge, Parker, Crouch, and Young , plus two promising youngsters (Lennon and Barry).

 

In general I think McClaren picks the right squad but what mystifies me is his team selection and use of substitutes. If we just look at the team for the Israel game there were several oddities:

 

1 - Aaron Lennon

 

Fast, dangerous, one footed and plays on the right for Spurs. So Maclaren played him on the left instead of picking Stuart Downing who is left footed and plays on the left for Middlesborough. This allowed him to play Steven Gerrard (out of position) at right midfield and meant he didn't have to drop the underperforming Lampard.

 

2 - Jamie Carragher

 

An excellent central defender, if a bit slow for international football. So McClaren played him at left back instead of Gareth Barry who plays left back for Villa. Can you see a pattern emerging here?

 

3 - Phil Neville

 

Used to be a full back but couldn't hold down a place in that position. Now employed by Everton as a defensive midfielder. McClaren picked him at right back instead of Luke Young who does play in the Premiership as a right back.

 

Turning now to the substitutions. In the second half we were dominating possession but not looking remotely dangerous. So what did McClaren do? He took off the only player who had stretched the Israelis (Lennon) and replaced him with Downing. Why didn't he take off Lampard, push Gerrard into the middle, switch Lennon to the right and put Downing on the left? We needed to win that game! Finally, he took off Johnson (who was working hard and getting no service) and replaced him with Defoe, leaving the ineffective and red-card-waiting-to-happen Rooney to get into arguments with the defenders. How on earth was that going to make us more dangerous when the problem was clearly with our supply to the forwards?

 

I didn't get anywhere near playing professional football (in fact I didn't get anywhere near playing for the sort of teams that the talent scouts watch) so perhaps I ought to keep my ill-informed opinions to myself. Then again I'm a paying punter so I'll shoot my mouth off like everybody else.:-)


One definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result each time, despite the fact that microsoft is doing it's best to make this process feel normal in my working life I think that definition still holds water.
I have a little sympathy for McClaren, but only in the same way that I have a little sympathy for Jade Goody.
 
From memory Lampard got 23 (?) shots on goal in the last world cup, and they didn't even get to the final, Gerrard had another 8 or 10, both convert those for their club sides week in, week out at a rate of what? 1 in 5? If he had been playing like he has done in the past for Chelsea, Lampard would have been in the running for the Golden Boot!
 
Look at the players in the teams we've been playing at an international level recently, half of their players are in English clubs and most of them are only as good as the third tier you describe above like Downing and Carragher.
 
We have good players. It's the managers job to get the best of them. Simple as.
 
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StudentofConflict       3/30/2007 3:58:58 AM
Hes a mug. Get Jose Mourinho to do it, he could manage Chelsea and win Euro 2008 at the same time! What we really need is Joe Cole back, hes our best player with the ball at his feet, and the most creative...and bin Downing, a grotesquley overrated mediocrity...
 
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