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Subject: Your thoughts on a renewed Australian Space Program
fall out    7/16/2008 2:04:57 AM
Was recently reading an old article from last year in theaustralian; (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22527985-30417,00.html) In it it details a renewed push for an Australian Space program; part of it was a plan to be the first nation on earth to send a probe into the sun as well as another sat to study the upper atmosphere of Earth. The cost; $100m over 10 years; I honestly cannot see any reason why this plan should not go ahead, Australia is one of only 2 countries in the top 25 economies of the world to not have a space program (other country is Mexico), $10m a year from a federal budget that ran a surplus of around $20bn this year surely would not break the budget and wouldn't piss short sighted voters off too much. We were the 4th country in the world to launch a satellite into space, we have the know how, one of the best launch sites in Woomera and it comes at a time where America is losing their grip in Space at a fast rate of knots with several countries aiming for a manned lunar mission and/or lunar base by 2020 (there will be a 5 year gap between the retirement of the Shuttles and the introduction of the Orion rockets where America will not have their own delivery system to space). What about trying to turn Woomera (or maybe another site?) into the region's premier launching site where we could encourage and sway other Asian nations possibly like Japan, South Korean and India to launch some of their space based assets from an Australian launching pad which could also help to generate revenue to pay for our own program and possibly please some voters with the prestige and maybe even a tourist site to watch the launches (not sure who could be f'kd going to Woomera but!!). This International involvement could also help to improve our relations with these countries and give us more clout on the global stage. I dont' believe we should let this opportunity to slip through to the keeper, Space is booming, there is talk of mining the moon for helium 3 (as well as other minerals on the moon and elsewhere). The world's combined expenditure on space from national govts is currently around $32bn p.a with NASA holding about half that however most countries budgets are in the small bn's or hundred's of mn's such as Belgium's $230mn p.a. It would not take that much out of the budget surplus to provide Australia with a Space program between 500mn and 1bn p.a which would put us around 8th to 10th biggest spenders in Space and provide Australia with not only the benefits across the board in Australia's science community but also with an independent Satellite network for both civilian and military purposes. Also, we have the world's two biggest miners that in the future could possibly be involved in mining certain parts of Space. Anyway, I would love to hear back from anyone and everyone on here as to their thoughts and opinion. As you can see, I would love nothing more ('cept for Australia to become a republic ;)) for Australia to begin their space program. Cheers, FO :)
 
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Enterpriser       7/16/2008 2:13:40 AM

Was recently reading an old article from last year in theaustralian;
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22527985-30417,00.html)" target="_blank">link

In it it details a renewed push for an Australian Space program; part of it was a plan to be the first nation on earth to send a probe into the sun as well as another sat to study the upper atmosphere of Earth.

The cost; $100m over 10 years; I honestly cannot see any reason why this plan should not go ahead, Australia is one of only 2 countries in the top 25 economies of the world to not have a space program (other country is Mexico), $10m a year from a federal budget that ran a surplus of around $20bn this year surely would not break the budget and wouldn't piss short sighted voters off too much.

We were the 4th country in the world to launch a satellite into space, we have the know how, one of the best launch sites in Woomera and it comes at a time where America is losing their grip in Space at a fast rate of knots with several countries aiming for a manned lunar mission and/or lunar base by 2020 (there will be a 5 year gap between the retirement of the Shuttles and the introduction of the Orion rockets where America will not have their own delivery system to space).

What about trying to turn Woomera (or maybe another site?) into the region's premier launching site where we could encourage and sway other Asian nations possibly like Japan, South Korean and India to launch some of their space based assets from an Australian launching pad which could also help to generate revenue to pay for our own program and possibly please some voters with the prestige and maybe even a tourist site to watch the launches (not sure who could be f'kd going to Woomera but!!). This International involvement could also help to improve our relations with these countries and give us more clout on the global stage.

I dont' believe we should let this opportunity to slip through to the keeper, Space is booming, there is talk of mining the moon for helium 3 (as well as other minerals on the moon and elsewhere).

The world's combined expenditure on space from national govts is currently around $32bn p.a with NASA holding about half that however most countries budgets are in the small bn's or hundred's of mn's such as Belgium's $230mn p.a. It would not take that much out of the budget surplus to provide Australia with a Space program between 500mn and 1bn p.a which would put us around 8th to 10th biggest spenders in Space and provide Australia with not only the benefits across the board in Australia's science community but also with an independent Satellite network for both civilian and military purposes.

Also, we have the world's two biggest miners that in the future could possibly be involved in mining certain parts of Space.

Anyway, I would love to hear back from anyone and everyone on here as to their thoughts and opinion. As you can see, I would love nothing more ('cept for Australia to become a republic ;)) for Australia to begin their space program.

Cheers,

FO :)

Love the idea..........but funds could be a little tricky politically.
 
Would love nothing more ('cept remaining a monarchy ;))
 
Brett.
 
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fall out       7/16/2008 7:32:36 AM


Love the idea..........but funds could be a little tricky politically.

 

Would love nothing more ('cept remaining a monarchy ;))

 

Brett.

Why so tricky? I think if we were to turn Woomera into an International Space port used also by Australian made and run rockets it may impress voters.  The plan put forward isn't exactly budget breaking though; $10mn a year is nothing these days.
 
F'k the Queen ;)

 
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hairy man       7/16/2008 9:13:55 AM
I think we all admire the Queen.  But how many monarchists will there be if Charlie takes over?
 
I would also like Australia to get re-involved in the space business.
 
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Enterpriser    Um.....   7/16/2008 9:46:38 AM







Love the idea..........but funds could be a little tricky politically.



 



Would love nothing more ('cept remaining a monarchy ;))



 



Brett.






Why so tricky? I think if we were to turn Woomera into an International Space port used also by Australian made and run rockets it may impress voters.  The plan put forward isn't exactly budget breaking though; $10mn a year is nothing these days.

 

F'k the Queen ;)





I think to do it properly would cost far more than the mere 10 million a year figure you are using as an example.
On another note. Whilst not wanting to turn this topic into a debate on a Republic, I note that she's your Queen too and has probably been Queen of Australia longer than you have been alive. I am really offended by that comment and regardless of your position as a Republican (whose billions in savings from not pursuing such a course of action would fund a space program of hundreds of million a year for decades), and I think that comment is worthy of being withdrawn.
 
Brett.
 
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the British Lion       7/16/2008 1:05:11 PM

Was recently reading an old article from last year in theaustralian;
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22527985-30417,00.html)" target="_blank">link

In it it details a renewed push for an Australian Space program; part of it was a plan to be the first nation on earth to send a probe into the sun as well as another sat to study the upper atmosphere of Earth.

The cost; $100m over 10 years; I honestly cannot see any reason why this plan should not go ahead, Australia is one of only 2 countries in the top 25 economies of the world to not have a space program (other country is Mexico), $10m a year from a federal budget that ran a surplus of around $20bn this year surely would not break the budget and wouldn't piss short sighted voters off too much.

We were the 4th country in the world to launch a satellite into space, we have the know how, one of the best launch sites in Woomera and it comes at a time where America is losing their grip in Space at a fast rate of knots with several countries aiming for a manned lunar mission and/or lunar base by 2020 (there will be a 5 year gap between the retirement of the Shuttles and the introduction of the Orion rockets where America will not have their own delivery system to space).

What about trying to turn Woomera (or maybe another site?) into the region's premier launching site where we could encourage and sway other Asian nations possibly like Japan, South Korean and India to launch some of their space based assets from an Australian launching pad which could also help to generate revenue to pay for our own program and possibly please some voters with the prestige and maybe even a tourist site to watch the launches (not sure who could be f'kd going to Woomera but!!). This International involvement could also help to improve our relations with these countries and give us more clout on the global stage.

I dont' believe we should let this opportunity to slip through to the keeper, Space is booming, there is talk of mining the moon for helium 3 (as well as other minerals on the moon and elsewhere).

The world's combined expenditure on space from national govts is currently around $32bn p.a with NASA holding about half that however most countries budgets are in the small bn's or hundred's of mn's such as Belgium's $230mn p.a. It would not take that much out of the budget surplus to provide Australia with a Space program between 500mn and 1bn p.a which would put us around 8th to 10th biggest spenders in Space and provide Australia with not only the benefits across the board in Australia's science community but also with an independent Satellite network for both civilian and military purposes.

Also, we have the world's two biggest miners that in the future could possibly be involved in mining certain parts of Space.

Anyway, I would love to hear back from anyone and everyone on here as to their thoughts and opinion. As you can see, I would love nothing more ('cept for Australia to become a republic ;)) for Australia to begin their space program.

Cheers,

FO :)

I've often wondered about the viability of a sort of Commonwealth space program. If the U.K., Australia, Canada, and possibly India (so long as Russia was kept out of it) all pooled together their combined knowledge and funded a united program we could a program that could possibly rival NASA's, or at least Russia's.
 
I don't know the ins and outs of how that would work politically, but it's just an idea.
 
Now, can we all rise for the singing of the national anthem:
 

God save our gracious Queen
Long live our noble Queen,
God save the Queen:
Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us:
God save the Queen.

O Lord, our God, arise,
Scatter thine enemies,
And make them fall:
Confound their politics,
Frustrate their knavish tricks,
On thee our hopes we fix:
God save us all.

Thy choicest gifts in store,
On her be pleased to pour;
Long may she reign:
May she defend our laws,
And ever give us cause
To sing with heart and voice
God save the Queen.

B.L.
 
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stingray1003       7/16/2008 9:01:26 PM
I don't think it will ever happen.
 
 There is no political will for Australia to go into space. At best we will lease out Woomera to a private US firm who will tie up the facilities until they are useless and get a better offer to go elsewhere and do little to no development here.
 
 As for mining the moon, when Harrison Schmitt (apollo 17 geologist-astronaut ) preposed mining the moon at an Australian instute of physics conference a few years back it became obvious to me how little support for this there would be even in the scientific community, the crowd was deeply divided. As larger discussion developed, it became apparent that there was extremely negitive feelings towards starting up the space program from the older, leading scientists. Schmitt almost got booed off stage, I later spoke to the head of physics @ UNSW and he described the whole thing as pie in the sky thinking and that it will never happen in a 100 years and he will be dammed if his funding was ever to be diverted to such a silly idea. He indicated that the top end of atleast the physics community thought in a simular way.
 
 Good luck even trying to get a ARC grant... Better off developing something under the guise of enviromental...
 
 The problem with rocket science is that rockets sometimes fail. A single failure can doom your funding, your program, your career, the career of everyone under you, poison. It is a high risk project that repels older scientists with much to lose but attracts young scientists trying to do something. There have been several attempts to restart the space programs in Australia, they have failed.
 
 I've seen atleast one university space science/rocket program tourn appart for reasons other than funding.
 
 The only project that seems to be having any success is the queensland stuff. But I'm not sure how or if that could be spun off into a dedicated large scale space program.
 
 The dreamers are dead and gone. Science is a business, not only that but one that demands almost instant returns. Short sighted science.
 
 We haven't even courted Virgin to try and get a space port built here.
 
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fall out       7/16/2008 9:22:44 PM


I've often wondered about the viability of a sort of Commonwealth space program. If the U.K., Australia, Canada, and possibly India (so long as Russia was kept out of it) all pooled together their combined knowledge and funded a united program we could a program that could possibly rival NASA's, or at least Russia's.

 

I don't know the ins and outs of how that would work politically, but it's just an idea.

 
B.L.


Not a bad idea, however I do believe that Britain is now firmly entrenched into Europe and I doubt us and Canada and India could pursuade them to join where they could do more with more with the EU.
 
 
What about creating an International Space Organisation that took funding off any nation deemed a suitable partner in the region; ASEAN, South Korea, Japan, India, maybe China.  Tech is shared but launching happens in Australia.  The total budget for something like that could be bigger than the EU Space Agency.
 
 
Btw, I almost forgot how there are couple of people left who don't mind the Queen or any Royal.  My apologies.  I can't help it sometimes. ;)

 
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fall out       7/16/2008 9:29:09 PM


I think to do it properly would cost far more than the mere 10 million a year figure you are using as an example.

I agree, this was a figure given by the Australian scientists and seemed very conservative; regardless though, very little money in relation to the federal govt kitty.
 
On another note. Whilst not wanting to turn this topic into a debate on a Republic, I note that she's your Queen too and has probably been Queen of Australia longer than you have been alive. I am really offended by that comment and regardless of your position as a Republican (whose billions in savings from not pursuing such a course of action would fund a space program of hundreds of million a year for decades), and I think that comment is worthy of being withdrawn.

 
No comment other than sorry.  I guess  you don't want to hear my opinion of the wider variety of royals? ;)
 
Brett.




 
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Enterpriser       7/16/2008 10:35:07 PM





I think to do it properly would cost far more than the mere 10 million a year figure you are using as an example.




I agree, this was a figure given by the Australian scientists and seemed very conservative; regardless though, very little money in relation to the federal govt kitty.


 

On another note. Whilst not wanting to turn this topic into a debate on a Republic, I note that she's your Queen too and has probably been Queen of Australia longer than you have been alive. I am really offended by that comment and regardless of your position as a Republican (whose billions in savings from not pursuing such a course of action would fund a space program of hundreds of million a year for decades), and I think that comment is worthy of being withdrawn.



 

No comment other than sorry.  I guess  you don't want to hear my opinion of the wider variety of royals? ;)


 

Brett.












Thanks F.O.
Ironically my reasons for being a CM are more related to the system of gov't than anything else (although I do hold this particular Monarch in high esteem) - the Other Royals will continue needing to work for my respect (which I think is right and proper).
 
Brett.
 
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Kevin Pork       7/17/2008 8:40:20 PM


 

Btw, I almost forgot how there are couple of people left who don't mind the Queen or any Royal.  My apologies.  I can't help it sometimes. ;)




Its not about liking Liz, Chuck or any of the others - it is about having a safe, reliable system of Govt that has a long track record of working and working in spite of some of the geese at the top.
I've yet to see a republic model put up that can provide proof that it is just as safe as what we have.
 
I'm regularly stunned by the shallow reasons put forward to change a working system (in general discussion, not directed at any post in this thread).

 
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