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Subject: theage: 'Russia warns of military response to US missile shield'
fall out    7/8/2008 11:47:09 PM
Russia's Foreign Ministry says Moscow will be forced to make a military response if a US-Czech missile defence agreement is ratified. The statement comes hours after US and Czech officials reached an initial agreement on deploying elements of a missile defence system in the Eastern European country. Russia says the system would severely undermine European security balances by weakening Russia's missile capacity. The Foreign Ministry said today "we will be forced to react not with diplomatic, but with military-technical methods" if the agreement is ratified. It did not give specifics of what that response would entail. AP ----- What are people's thoughts here? Should the United States go ahead regardless of the interests of a major nuclear power and potentially destablise (further) the world. What are some of the options the Russians might go with ala military response? Could this push China and Russia closer? What are the chances of this issue being elevated to a critical issue surrounding the deteriorating relations between the West and particularly America and Russia? Also, even though Medvedev is officially in charge, Putin is still hanging around and may run to be president later too. FO
 
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AdvanceAustralia    Go ahead   7/9/2008 12:17:39 AM
The US, in concert with its friends in Eastern Europe, should push ahead with plans for European missile defence. The optimistically-named "shield" is only designed to protect Europe from "rogue" states such as Iran. The planned deployment of anti-ballistic missiles will not be in sufficient quantity to defeat a full-scale attack by the  Soviets Russians and are not intended to do so. Putin et al are fully aware of this and use the issue for domestic consumption and justification for expenditure on strategic weaponry.
 
The Russians need to realise, and accept, that the PRC has major designs on the Russian Far East and that their biggest threat comes form that direction. The sooner they do, the sooner they can prepare for it. There was no shortage of Red Army divisions in that theatre during the Cold War.
 
Putin is more than hanging around - he is now prime minister and still pulling the strings. He will doubtlessly be president again (he only changed roles as he could not think up a way to circumvent the Russian constitution which limits an individual's presidency to 8 years at a time).

 
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fall out    Response   7/9/2008 1:26:13 AM

US criticises 'bellicose' Russia

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44816000/jpg/_44816433_signing226afp.jpg" alt="US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Czech Minister of Foreign Affairs Karel Schwarzenberg" border="0" height="170" hspace="0" vspace="0" width="226" />
The Czechs have signed up, but the Poles are hesitating

The United States has criticised what it calls "bellicose rhetoric" from Russia over US plans to develop a missile shield in Europe.

Russia said it would be forced to react with military means if the US went ahead with its plan for a shield based partly in the Czech Republic.

The reaction was "designed to make Europeans nervous about participating" said a Pentagon spokesman.

A White House spokesman said dialogue with Russia would continue.

"We seek strategic cooperation on preventing missiles from rogue nations, like Iran, from threatening our friends and allies," said White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe.

He said the US and Russia should be "equal partners".

Moscow says siting the system near its borders could weaken its own defences, despite US assurances that it is designed to counter a threat from the Middle East, not from Russia.

It has previously threatened to aim its own missiles at any eventual base in Poland or the Czech Republic.

A deal, signed by US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice in Prague on Tuesday, allows a tracking radar base to be set up on Czech territory.

'Not our choice'

The Russian foreign ministry statement said: "If a US strategic anti-missile shield starts to be deployed near our borders, we will be forced to react not in a diplomatic fashion but with military-technical means."

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It said there was "no doubt that the grouping of elements of the strategic US arsenal faced towards Russian territory" would mean Moscow had to "take adequate measures to compensate for the threats to its national security".

"This is not our choice," it added.

The foreign ministry said it would continue to monitor developments but would remain open to constructive talks on issues of strategic stability.

The BBC's Adam Brookes in Washington cites Russia's ambassador to the UN as suggesting that the phrase "military-technical means" does not mean military action, but more likely a change in Russia's strategic posture, perhaps by redeploying its own missiles.

More likely still, our correspondent says, is tha

 
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fall out    Response   7/9/2008 1:33:36 AM

The US, in concert with its friends in Eastern Europe, should push ahead with plans for European missile defence. The optimistically-named "shield" is only designed to protect Europe from "rogue" states such as Iran. The planned deployment of anti-ballistic missiles will not be in sufficient quantity to defeat a full-scale attack by the  Soviets Russians and are not intended to do so. Putin et al are fully aware of this and use the issue for domestic consumption and justification for expenditure on strategic weaponry.

 -- I agree, however, what are the chances of America ultimately being able to produce an effective missile defence against saturation missile attack?  Perhaps this is just a step towards this for America.  Atm but it is a non-issue and they know it.

The Russians need to realise, and accept, that the PRC has major designs on the Russian Far East and that their biggest threat comes form that direction. The sooner they do, the sooner they can prepare for it. There was no shortage of Red Army divisions in that theatre during the Cold War.


 --- An energy exporting giant with lots of spare room against an energy importing behemeth with far too many people wanting ever increasing amounts of raw materials.  I agree, they should be concerned, but not alarmed.

Putin is more than hanging around - he is now prime minister and still pulling the strings. He will doubtlessly be president again (he only changed roles as he could not think up a way to circumvent the Russian constitution which limits an individual's presidency to 8 years at a time).


-- Medvedev is a puppet putin; just the wonderful Russian democracy at work really!!



 
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Kevin Pork       7/9/2008 2:14:40 AM




 -- I agree, however, what are the chances of America ultimately being able to produce an effective missile defence against saturation missile attack?  Perhaps this is just a step towards this for America.  Atm but it is a non-issue and they know it.
The point of missile defence is twofold, to stop a limited missile attack from a nutcase state like Iran and to deny a major striker  confidence that they could destroy counter strike missiles in their silos, as long as a rational enemy can't be sure of a clean kill, they won't launch.
 
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BLUIE006       7/9/2008 6:17:57 AM
"military-technical methods"  pretty loose term my bet, that means cyber war of which we are already engaged in. 
Physical military action from Russia, slim.... what are going to do start WW IV? If that is the case all analysis over the past 10 years is wrong?  IS Putin that Bold?
 
 
 
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Volkodav       7/9/2008 6:26:16 AM
The Russians need to realise, and accept, that the PRC has major designs on the Russian Far East and that their biggest threat comes form that direction. The sooner they do, the sooner they can prepare for it. There was no shortage of Red Army divisions in that theatre during the Cold War.
 
Someone should send Putin a copy of Tom Clancy's 'The Bear and the Dragon".
 
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Aussiegunneragain       7/9/2008 9:19:37 AM
I tend to think that the whole Eastern European missile shield thing has nothing to do with the Middle East. Why on earth would Iran want to fire a missile at the Czech Republic when it has Israel as a target?
I personally think that it is a confidence building measure on the part of the US, which want's to show its new allies in Eastern Europe that it will back them against a resurgent and aggressive Russia. It also sends the message to the Russians not to be aggressive towards these countries lightly. Personally I think it is a good way of doing it as the shield is purely defensive in nature, so demonstrates a willingness to defend without sending the aggressive messages that a large scale conventional deployment or basing of nuclear weapons would.
 
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AdvanceAustralia       7/9/2008 8:46:24 PM

I tend to think that the whole Eastern European missile shield thing has nothing to do with the Middle East. Why on earth would Iran want to fire a missile at the Czech Republic when it has Israel as a target?


I personally think that it is a confidence building measure on the part of the US, which want's to show its new allies in Eastern Europe that it will back them against a resurgent and aggressive Russia. It also sends the message to the Russians not to be aggressive towards these countries lightly. Personally I think it is a good way of doing it as the shield is purely defensive in nature, so demonstrates a willingness to defend without sending the aggressive messages that a large scale conventional deployment or basing of nuclear weapons would.

I'd never discount the threat from Iran completely but this view certainly has merit. There is probably a strong degree of truth in this and, if so, it is good to see such support from the US. The Russians have viewed Eastern Europe as their sphere of influence for far too long. Of course, the Russians won't give it up lightly.

 
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fall out       7/10/2008 12:15:17 AM

I tend to think that the whole Eastern European missile shield thing has nothing to do with the Middle East. Why on earth would Iran want to fire a missile at the Czech Republic when it has Israel as a target?


I personally think that it is a confidence building measure on the part of the US, which want's to show its new allies in Eastern Europe that it will back them against a resurgent and aggressive Russia. It also sends the message to the Russians not to be aggressive towards these countries lightly. Personally I think it is a good way of doing it as the shield is purely defensive in nature, so demonstrates a willingness to defend without sending the aggressive messages that a large scale conventional deployment or basing of nuclear weapons would.


Interesting.  I thought the sites were positioned in order to protect Western Europe and/or North America from any nuke fired off around the Mid-East?
 
 
I agree that this is more than just a defensive measure, for starters it's not purely a defensive weapon, it's purpose is to render the enemies deterrent useless if their arsenal is limited and it's political intentions as you stated is anything from benign.  America is trying to coax Russia's traditional allies (add Europe to that policy too) and further corner them.
 
 
Btw, Putin has compared this deployment to Russia's deployment of nukes in Cuba.  They are making a lot of noise, not sure if that will entirely be backed up...
 
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AdvanceAustralia    fo   7/10/2008 12:53:42 AM




I tend to think that the whole Eastern European missile shield thing has nothing to do with the Middle East. Why on earth would Iran want to fire a missile at the Czech Republic when it has Israel as a target?






I personally think that it is a confidence building measure on the part of the US, which want's to show its new allies in Eastern Europe that it will back them against a resurgent and aggressive Russia. It also sends the message to the Russians not to be aggressive towards these countries lightly. Personally I think it is a good way of doing it as the shield is purely defensive in nature, so demonstrates a willingness to defend without sending the aggressive messages that a large scale conventional deployment or basing of nuclear weapons would.






Interesting.  I thought the sites were positioned in order to protect Western Europe and/or North America from any nuke fired off around the Mid-East?

 

 

I agree that this is more than just a defensive measure, for starters it's not purely a defensive weapon, it's purpose is to render the enemies deterrent useless if their arsenal is limited and it's political intentions as you stated is anything from benign.  America is trying to coax Russia's traditional allies (add Europe to that policy too) and further corner them.


 

 

Btw, Putin has compared this deployment to Russia's deployment of nukes in Cuba.  They are making a lot of noise, not sure if that will entirely be backed up...


FO, you may be a lefty but I'd hate to see you come to any harm. A friendly word of warning - never go to Poland or the Czech Republic and tell the locals they are Russia's traditional allies. I would genuinely fear for your safety. Russia has no traditional allies, save perhaps for Serbia, only oppressed and very reluctant neighbours.
 
Cheers.

 
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