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Subject: Long range artillery for the near future
Shirrush    6/13/2006 5:19:21 PM
SRBMs are the talk these days. Iran and Syria have equipped themselves with large quantities of long-range artillery rockets, and have deployed them in Syria and in Lebanon's Beqaa Valley with the Hizb-Allah terrorists and their IRGC advisers. The thought is that one day these will be used, without warning, in the opening stages of a war against Israel, to the effect of markedly delaying the IDF/AF's first response and the mobilization effort. The Israeli military industries have apparently caught the wind early on, and have understood the potential of such weapons for neutralizing i.e. IADS or POL distribution hubs. The IAI is peddling two such systems at the Eurosatory exhibition, the> LORA , for extended ranges that could be very useful to threaten i.e. S-300 MPU batteries, and the medium-range> EXTRA , that could well be the solution we've been looking for, for i.e. sea-to-shore fires. Both these systems, unlike the Iranian Nazeat/Zelzal rockets, are guided and have been been designed for extremely accurate targeting, against fixed targets AFAIU. There are no signs, however, that the IDF intends to purchase any of these systems, certainly not for the naval platforms that do not exist, nor have they made any noises about purchasing any of these newfangled point-defense> SAM systems that would make their assets, such as the large, but few airbases they have, somewhat less vulnerable to enemy long-range rocketry. Israel also does not have any possibility for realistic training with long-range artillery, since public opinion would doubtless resent any overflights of Israel's densely populated territory, by wobbly rockets carrying 400 kg of high-explosive each. Do you think that the added value, in deterrent currency, of that sort of artillery systems, would make their acquisition worth the taxpayer's money?
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ArtyEngineer    RE:Long range artillery for the near future   6/13/2006 5:23:50 PM
My personal opinion is that Ballistic Missiles as a threat are over rated, our ability to detect, track and intercept is reaching the level as to make them non viable threat systems. Stealthy, low flying terrain hugging cruise missile however are a diferent story!!!!
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neutralizer    RE:Long range artillery for the near future   6/14/2006 6:10:39 AM
It depends on warhead, accuracy and targeting precision. Nevertheless even badly aimed with HE warheads it would cause disruption, whether this would be militarily significant, ie disrupt Israeli mobilisation and deployment, is a different question and probably impossible to answer. I thought Arrow had a useful ABM capability.
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Shirrush    RE:Long range artillery for the near future   6/14/2006 10:37:29 AM
The Arrow ABM system is perfectly capable of intercepting any ballistic missile except ICBM's, but it is a hugely expensive weapon that deploys a limited number of interceptors. The idea would thus be to saturate it with massive salvos of long range, heavy artillery rockets, that would make the strategic bombardment of Israeli population centers with non-conventional warheads-tipped IRBM's a definite possibily. Smaller and cheaper interceptors are under development, such as the Barak 8, a joint Rafael-DRDO venture, but these will not be operational at least for a decade. In the event of an all-out ballistic exchange with the Jihad axis, Israel will sustain horrendous damage, even if each and every Arrow hits it's target, and even if some real Aegis/ SM-3 assistance from our friends along our Mediterranean shore is available. The question is therefore, whether it wouldn't be wiser to purchase a couple of battalion's worth of our own heavy arty rockets, in order to deter the enemy from being tempted to try such a surprise attack.
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Carl S    Long Range Cannon?   9/13/2006 11:36:25 AM
In the September 2006 issue of the Marine Corps Gazette there is a artical by Applied Ordinance Technology staff describing tests of the "Advanced Modular Gun".    Specificly this is a test platform for testing the full array of new cannon technology.  Propellants, projectiles, fuzes, and gun components.   The goals stated in the artical revolve around a test system for  developing 'large' caliber guns capable of ranges exceeding 150 nautical miles, and capable of rapid fire.  The intial test to validate the test equipment are described as completed.   The only indication of actuall performance achived is a remark that chamber pressures of over 90,000 pounds square inch were measured in the tests, which is close to the intial 100,000 lb goal.  Current cannon are described as reaching chamber pressures of 60,000 psi.  This chamber pressure achived should in theory give a muzzle velocity of over 8,000 feet per second with a appropriate tube, and a range exceeding 60 nautical miles.

All this implies the USN is continuing a serious program for developing a series of hypervelocity guns.
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ArtyEngineer    Advanced Modular Gun   9/13/2006 2:49:46 PM
Here is some data on the system Carls S mentioned, looks promising.
<a href="">Modular Guns System PDF</a>
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ArtyEngineer    Advanced Modular Gun   9/13/2006 2:50:33 PM
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ArtyEngineer    Advanced Modular Gun   9/13/2006 2:51:12 PM
Ok how the hell do you do links now?
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ArtyEngineer       9/13/2006 4:36:19 PM
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Carl S       9/14/2006 9:07:28 AM
The 'link' still does not work for me.  lets all go slap the sysop around.
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Carl S       9/14/2006 9:13:53 AM
Looking at the test schedule any production based on these tests is a decade out.
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