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Subject: StarGate - Possible or impossible?
fall out    10/7/2004 9:31:41 AM
Im sure most of you are well aware of the tv show Star Gate; i was just wondering what your thoughts are on the actual possibility of traveling through space like that?? Cheers, Fall Out :)
 
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fall out    is there any possibility of...   10/10/2004 9:08:13 AM
aliens not existing at all? how about it? 0.000000% possiblility or somethign much higher?
 
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fall out    RE:StarGate - Now we're talkin'! - wow   10/10/2004 9:12:44 AM
let's say govt's do have undeniable evidence that aliens exist, when would the govt volunterily (also what about the chances of the secret getting out?) let the info out? in 10yrs? 20? 50? 100? i know some, not all though (in the bible there is actually mention of 'other beings') reglions are based on humans being the only dudes in this big ass universe, but....
 
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fall out    RE:By the way   10/10/2004 9:14:14 AM
"It will be interesting to see if the Atlantis spin-off from Stargate" - is this some new movie/tv series based on stargate or...?
 
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doggtag    Stargate: Atlantis, and negotiating with the other side   10/10/2004 11:31:51 AM
I take it in your neck of the world, you're not yet familiar with this series? It's been on the SciFi Channel here in the US for several weeks now. http://www.scifi.com/atlantis/ As for any aliens meeting up with "the other side" first, surely they would not necessarily concede to the mentality the likes of people such as OBL...unless they are also some kind of religion-distorting race that finds no difficulty in subjugating its own peoples by reducing a large portion of their society to lives of ignorance and servitude to more easily dominate them. But considering the way the more dominant governments of the world also conduct themselves, there is the possibility that aliens with a more mature mentality have no time for such childish games of political corruption as we are guilty of. There is also the possibility that any other races have taken political corruption to new levels we can only dream of. Or, like the Tolans of Stargate, they may be hesitant for obvious reasons to share the full extent of their knowledge, wisdom, and technologies with more "primitive" (as Nareem would say it) species. Just as the US is not eager to go giving everybody nuclear powerplants for obvious reasons, so too would it be unlikely that advanced alien races are going to give us great rapid leaps in our technologies as well: for fear that our ignorance, immaturity, and selfishness have us using such technologies against ourselves, or even turning against the hand that fed us such wondrous technologies to begin with. Naturally, governments would need to suppress such knowledge for a considerable amount of time, until the majority of society has risen above such ignorances like racism. Considering how many humans look poorly at each other from different races and cultures, how poorly would they treat extra-terrestrials? Would aliens be accused of being demons by some religious groups? Or looked at as divine messengers, only to be condemned when they can't resurrect our long-dead loved ones? Would we be willing to accept their differences from us when we have such difficulties accepting so many differences within our own ranks? And certainly, there would be people in power who would feel challenged if such knowledge might suddenly mean their grip on power would be lost, so naturally they above all would seek to keep any such information limited. And would the aliens be willing to play along with such people? It really becomes a double-edged (or double-ended?) sword for both of us (humans and aliens): any aliens that would approve of keeping secrets and favoring often-corrupt people continuing to maintain power over the world may not be the most favorable aliens for humanity to be involved with. Until mankind has within itself a massive inter-cultural revelation and a new age of cooperation between ALL nations, creeds, religions, and peoples, we will never be truly qualified to step out into the stars and start spreading our mentality to other worlds and races (unless, like some episodes of ST: Enterprise and Stargate indicate: it is suddenly thrust upon us and we have no choice, like how the early peoples of the Americas had to adapt to the sudden influx of European explorers: accept their ways because you have no choice, or die.) If humanity continues to stay wallowing in general ignorance, we may one day be forced into a scenario much like Independence Day or Battlefield Earth, where we find ourselves fighting for our very right to survive against an advanced race who sees our mentality unfit to travel the stars, and takes it upon themselves to eradicate us like vermin. Perhaps THAT is the reason we've had such a proliferation of nuclear arms between the major superpowers of the world? They have knowledge that (such as Reagen projected) we could face a threat from beyond our world, and needed adequate deterrent from an alien incursion/invasion? Kind of like, "if we can't defeat you, we'll render our only home so inhospitable to you so as to make it useless for your cosmic invasion, even if it means killing ourselves in the process." It's hard to tell when governments will come clean with all the secrets they hold. Is it quite possibly because it would implicate several key officials in a nation's government of various criminal misconducts, fraudulent activities, and cover-ups? Again, if any alien races would saupport such conduct by siding with said governments, those races may not be in humanity's best interests to be associated with. Kind of like how crooks meet in secret in dark places: maybe any aliens that Earth governments are in contact with now are more of interstellar criminals trying to get away from whatever law enforcement forces work the stars, and Earth just happenns to be an ideal little primitive backwater world for them to hide out on? (an interesting story that's starting to fit into this discussion is titled, "Waiting For the Galactic Bus" (web search it.)
 
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Warhammer    RE:StarGate - Now we're talkin'! - wow   10/14/2004 11:44:27 AM
"i know some, not all though (in the bible there is actually mention of 'other beings') reglions are based on humans being the only dudes in this big ass universe, but... " Here is my problem with that: It seems most everyone likes to assume that statement regarding their religion, even though it doesn't say anywhere in any religious texts that we are the only ones, and that there isn't anything else out in the universe. Just because it doesn't mention other peoples in the universe, doesn't mean it isn't there.(correct me if I am wrong about it not saying anywhere that there is or isn't other life in the universe) For all we know there could be an infinite number of worlds, with an infinite number of peoples who have all been created, nurtured, and taught by some almighty being. Why should an omnipotent being be stuck with one tiny planet to control? It is one of those questions that won't be answered until you are either dead, or we learn a vast amount more about life after death, and the possible ultimate being. However, I don't think we ccan come to the conclusion that we are the only people created by god, just because our ignorant and self centered ancestors thought so. It is an open possibility. One day we may be visited by a species that has no physical resemblance to us, and yet they have 10 commandments, a bible that is strikingly similar to ours in thought, if not history, and a god figurehead that might have acted in many ways similar to our Jesus. Or a half dozen other religions. It could be that they are responsible for our religions, both species were visited by someone who had the same influence on them, or even that both species have the same real omnipotent god that has guided them throughout their existence. So many questions, so short a lifespan to see the answers.
 
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Warhammer    RE:StarGate - Technical side of a StarGate   10/14/2004 1:30:01 PM
Lots of discussion on the probability of life in the universe, and probablility of government conspiracies, but not much discussion on whether a stargate would work given our current knowledge, and why. First, we would have to look at current wormhole theory, and if it could be applied into a on demand system which we could just activate at will. Wormholes possible? Entirely, however most theories on their occurences are on such a vast scale, that fitting them into a small room, let alone finding the power to open one is far beyond anything we can come up with at this time. Most wormholes from our limited experience and conjecture, are usually forced open when something the size of 3+ of our suns explodes, or violently implodes(usually both at the same time). The energy required for such a transaction is more than our entire planet has available if every single gram of mass were turned into photons. So, how are we going to fit one into an 8 foot circle, and if we figure out how, how are we going to reduce the power needed, and where is it going to come from? In Stargate the series, crystals in the DRD provide control necessary to force the naquada(which the stargate is made of) to open a wormhole somehow. Like doggtag said, there are technologies that we have yet to even dream of, and we might get the technology needed after hundreds to thousands of years of tinkering with the universe. That is pretty much our current constaints for wormhole technology. We don't know how to manipulate spacetime without vast gravitational forces and/or velocities, and from what we do know, we don't have the power to do so on earth. A stargate has a semblance of possible reality from our perspective, but we aren't at the point where we can do that ourselves, or come up with a real plan to do so. The variable that would give us such knowledge and stargate technology earlier than taking hundreds, or maybe even thousands of years to think it up ourselves, would be outside involvement. We either need to find a stargate or be secretly talking with aliens teaching us secrets of the universe if we want to use the technology anytime in the near future. So, say we have found a stargate in egypt and it is sitting in a secret US governemtn facility for us to use, study, and reverse engineer. We suddenly have an item that we can work backwards from much faster than had we worked forward to our own such device. How would such a device work? Well, if we have the device, and it makes wormholes to pre-programmed destination in the universe, using power derived from it's own constuct, then we are obviously working with some unknown material, or combination of materials that allows the stargate to manipulate energy and spacetime in ways we have never though of. First step in figuring out how it works would be to figure out what it is, how it was made, and whether or not we have materils present on earth to duplicate such device. If it already works, carving off a chunk of it for all the testing needed might not be the wisest decision. After much testing, we figure out the elements, and their configuration used to make the stargate. Then we look at the energy involved, and the end result of the interaction of that energy, and the material of the stargate and we figure out a theory of how it forms the wormhole in the first place. So, after lots of testing, we find out that this combination of materials and energy will manipulate spacetime in a way that we can open a wormhole. Then, we have to figure out how that wormhole is controlled, once it has been opened. I am inclined to believe it would work on a system sinilar to all other forces we know of. Path of least resistance. Like electicity, and pressure, and any other force that will go wherever it is easiest to go, I think spacetime and wormholes would act in a similar fashion, even though it is highly unknown. When electricty travels though a circuit, it always goes where electrons have a slot to fill, which is positive, or ground. You have a battery, with 2 sides, positive and negative. The negative side of the battery is filled with atoms that have an overabundance of electrons in their orbit. When put next to an atom with less electrons than it should, an atom with lots of electrons will discard the extra on to the empty one. So, when you connect a wire from negative to positive on the battery, all the electrons just bump along one at a time in a long string(except the wire is many atoms wide, so it is a lot at one) to the empty(positive) zone of the battery until the path of least resistance is reduced to a normal state and electrons don't have anywhere to go.(at which point the battery is considred dead) This is how all known systems of force work in thw world, liquid, electrical, thermal, and kinetic. Hot to cold, negative to positive, full tank to empty tank, and big linebacker pushing though a small blocker. I a
 
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Warhammer    RE:StarGate - Technical side of a StarGate   10/14/2004 3:10:25 PM
I just remembered the visual they give when a team goes through a wormhole in stargate. They step in, then it goes through this twisting roller coaster type thing, and they fly by 6-7 stars as they head to their destination. Kind of wonder if they had already thought of the resistance paths when they made that. You might not have to stop at every star in the network, you could just kind of bounce off of them until you reached the star you wanted, however that is controlled.
 
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Nanheyangrouchuan    RE:The Other Side   10/14/2004 5:45:01 PM
There was a star trek NG episode like that too.
 
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Nanheyangrouchuan    stargates, wormholes, etc   10/14/2004 5:46:18 PM
Look no further than the USS Eldridge. Other than perhaps microwave ovens, I'd really like to get a look at the follow up experiments to that little trial run.
 
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Nanheyangrouchuan    RE:StarGate - Technical side of a StarGate   10/14/2004 5:48:25 PM
maybe it is not a question of brute energy applied to the device but something along the lines of finessing the physical rules of the universe.
 
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