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Subject: Turkey vs. Greece who better?
Irish Emo dudes    1/4/2007 7:32:39 PM
Greece spends 7 billion on their military and has american weapondry turkey spends 12 billion and also has american weapondry both used f-16's but turkey has ordered 100 f-35's not sure what greece is getting i think eurofighters...whose better militarily and who would win in a war (two different questions) and another thing i would like to know who is better trained?
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Deran       2/5/2013 10:20:03 PM
PS: I am from Turkey, my grandmother and all her family was from Greece. People thinks that i am Greek all over Europe wherever i visit as well. I admire Greek people, and Greece! I shouldn't start to tell how much i love Sirtaki (Zorba especially!) and Greek ancient history. But numbers are here before you, combat experiences are known, (due to he PKK terrorist threat unfortunately it had to be this way) So i leave it at there.
Also the Topic of the thread was "Turkey vs. Greece who better?" well my reply to that is: Neither is better, but they are both great. Wish instead of hundreds of threads on "turkey vs greece", there was threads for how they can help each other to overcome each other's modern time problems.
Thousands of years living next to each other... thousands of years of immigration, not just a century or 2 but thousands! We are actually the same blood. (well there probably are greater powers that likes us to stay this way rather than allies - subliminal messages all around and provocateurs must have a reason, right?)
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Allheilmittel    I am Greek   2/6/2013 10:21:51 AM
I think Greeks have stronger navy. Capturing the Agean Sea won't be easy for Turkey. Also if Greeks attack they won't win. If Turkey attacks, they will loose because of Evros, the river beside Greece and Turkey at the frontiers
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Yiannis    Psychology of greek on the late nationalistic statements   2/25/2013 1:36:09 AM
Hi, this is my first post in this forum and I havent use this language for the last 3 years so my vocabulary might not be qualified, I will try.
I am not a nationalist, I am atheist and politically I tend to anarchism. I am born and rased in greece, but i have travelled a lot and have friends from many countries. I think it is needed, as a start, to tell you also that I have visited turkey many times and i had a relationship with a turkish woman for 4 years. I respect the turkish people but i hate their politc view. They are very close to us (greeks) genetically and mentally, but are some factors that unite us and sepate us (as nations) that I am gonna explain here down bellow.
All these europeans and foreigners that make calculations on a hypothetical war bettween these 2 countries should try to think how a turk or how a greek feels about ech other. Well I am trying to explain it right now. Mostly by the greek side but i will try to inform you about the turkish thinking as well. If I am wrong please correct me I will be pleased (I would be more than grateful to be corrected by a neighbour turk hehehe).
First of all, the 2 coutries are from their history dumned to be different.
When modern greece emerged as a new nation they did because of need not will. They had passed through venecian, ottoman, frecnh, english even in some parts egyptian occupation. The suffer of the everyday people was significant. Was not the rich greeks in istanbul that revulted (they had good relationships with the Ottoman regime) but the first were the people of Central and South greece, the poorest regions. The first people that liberated were peasnts, not generals. Then after the revolution and the formation greeks (only cristian greeks were considered greeks all the other population were left to be named turks or bulgars although they were genetically greeks) saw it as an oportunity to unite all the populations that called themselves greeks (hellenes or Romii) to a new kind of State and let themeselve protect themselves from foreigners, that was their oportunity. I can only compare it to the foundation of Israel and Armenia. Nations almost purely of the same religion and language usually even familly tree. For that day on, modern greeks never clamed a piece of land that belonged to other nationalities. The only exception was in 1911-'12 where again the greek govermetn could not close it eyes to the slaughter that the neoturks were condacting. Greece never-ever had an attaking plan to any neighbour. On the contrary they allways follow this doctrine: "stay quite and make the opponent think you are unpowered, when the opponent thinks that has wont the fight, then deploy everything". Since 1930s all army managment till this day is based on a deffencive role for many reasons. Only the last 15 years and because of our qute neighbours the army officials and politicians changed a bit our "Dogma" to deffencive-counteroffencive. And this is due to the constant and fiercfull demanding of the opposite side. You also have to consider that we are not naighboring with Canada, Belgium nor even Poland. We are in a situation were things have and do change rappidly for or against us. The only neighbour strong enough to realize and threat (and they have spelled many) is the state of Turkey. PLus were do not consider ourselves as "State" or "Country" but rather as a "Nation". And for the ones that do not understand the difference i can give you an example. Britain or USA or Turkey are States. on the other hand places such us Greece or Israel or Albania or Serbia or Itlay are considered to us as Nation (Nation is closer as a term to the genetically and or culturally homogeneus citizens's country). We are not expantionists nor we ever tried to sieze comand of a resource we think it belongs to an other population that lives on it. Actually through out the modern history we never did. We care moe about the prosperity of the person. 
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Yiannis    Psychology of greek on the late nationalistic statements   2/25/2013 1:36:53 AM
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Yiannis    Sorry   2/25/2013 1:39:15 AM
I didnt complete the reply i will continue other time, sorry to the foroum. I did a mistake cause i deleted the next paragraphs and couldnt paste them.
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greek    please inform me   3/31/2013 11:52:07 AM
While I was reading the comments, I realised that most Turks think that we fought in Cyprus and they won.
Well, its not true. Let me inform you that when we sent the 10.000  men division in Cyprus and put the situation under control after shutting down the Turkish rebellions, you begged Americans to drive our division away from Cyprus. Before you warned us with war () but you didnt declare because you knew you would lose (we were experienced fighting on the civil war). After our division left from Cyprus, some years later, after the putsch of Ioannidis (Ιωανν?δης) Turkey found the pretext to invade Cyprus which was unarmed.
 Unfortunately, this is the reality...
Greeting from New Artaki (as we talk about Turkey) 
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wisdom    Greece vs Turkey?   4/8/2013 10:36:49 AM
My friends on every side you belong to. I am 36 years old and since i remember myself Greece is not in the mood to attack against any country. Greek people are not hostile and the majority is mainly focused on every day's reality. Its a myth any other info you may have. I will give you my view on how the war would be ended.
The only scenario therefore for an upcoming war would be the possibility to confront an indeed superior force in our own territory. The possibility to occupy a piece of land on Turkey would be only in the benefit of further negotiations after the incident of Turkey's attack. Historicaly speaking the one who attacks suffer most casualties and i strongly believe that most of Turks suffer as much as the majority of Greeks suffer  when they loose sons and grandchildren and especially when those children come from poor families without political connections to ensure good placements out of battle. those people would sooner or later be opposite after the first casualties. At the other hand let's speak from the scope of the simple civilian - soldier.
Personally i am an open minded person like most Greek people is, i like drinking my coffee and enjoy sun. When i had been at the Navy i had the hell of training, i learned to admire of what i was doing and as most of us do i love my history and respect our historical heritage as some people from the other side do in Turkey. If i have to confront Turkeys i will die doing this and taken under consideration that i would do it in self defence in my territory i would do it in the best way  by giving my life no matter to what God i believe in.  Now.. multiply that by at least the standard number of hoplites (soldiers) - the moral would be extremely high because we would be all in self defence while being afraid that our death would bring the worst death for our families.
The battle would be endless in mountains, air and sea and why not nobody knows the what would have happened IF we had infiltrator forces within Greece by Turky's allies. We would have other peopl - non soldiers carrying their own weapons in order to protect their families.The result would be a living hell for both countries and i am afraid that non would win this battle because we are both countries hostages of an international game for resources.The battle would end after the push by the NATO and the U.S.A in the benefit of the international companies that would take advantage of our national resources and trust me non would win after that. We would just "kill" some of our heroes and we would be like Syria or other countries in conflict.
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Jimbo7       6/4/2013 9:53:49 AM
People,please don't be naive.It would certainly be Greece,you're talking about what would happen in the absence of miltary aid from other countries.However,the world doesn't stand still when a war starts
1.Greece's population is about 11,5 million.However there are greek societies in many many other countries.For example in America there are more than 1 million greeks and this folk are much more nationalists by the regular Greeks
(if you put aside the members of Golden Dawn Nationalist Party)
2.I believe someone mentioned the operation of Imia when 20 Turkish commandos took over a small unnamed unmapped island somewhere in the Aegean.Please mate you know how this operation ended?All 20 of the Turkish commandos were imprisoned and later releashed after the pressure of NATO in the Greek goverment.Do you know by how many Greek commandos they were captured? Only 4. The Greek special army forces are one of the best in Europe.
3.There are Nationalist Brotherhoods in Greece(born by the rise of the Golden Dawn Nationalist Party) that get regular training in warfare including traps,guerilla warfare,destruction techinques and many other.
4.Who rules the world?Do the politicians? Nope.Do the miltarists?Nope.Do the bankers?Yeap they do!
For anyone that doesn't know Greece owes money in more than 12 banks,9 countries and countless companies.The loans that have been taken are monthly paid by the Greek goverment.What happens if Greece is taken over or if it gets economically destroyed by a war? All debts get automatically erased by the Greek goverment and since the economy starts on from the begining none can harm it.As a result all the montly pays that would be a steady income for banks,countries and companies for at least the next 50 years stop.Would the banks the other countries and the companies allow such a thing to happen? I seriously don't think so
5.Closing,there is a war factory in Greece made to construct weapons for the army.However, since the coup that was staged by George Papadopoulos it hasn't been allowed to be used unless there is a war on Greece for fear that the army could supply it's own weapons(instead of buying them) and use them to get the power
Thank you all for listening!
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WarNerd       6/5/2013 3:41:14 AM
2.I believe someone mentioned the operation of Imia when 20 Turkish commandos took over a small unnamed unmapped island somewhere in the Aegean.Please mate you know how this operation ended?All 20 of the Turkish commandos were imprisoned and later releashed after the pressure of NATO in the Greek goverment.Do you know by how many Greek commandos they were captured? Only 4. The Greek special army forces are one of the best in Europe.
Suggest you read this, the relevant section starts on page 8:
The whole thing reads like a college frat prank that got blown out of proportion by the Press and nearly started a war.
It all started in a dispute over salvage rights when the Turkish freighter Figen Akat ran aground on 12/25/95. His Turkish maps showed the island so he insisted on a Turkish tugboat to pull the ship off the rocks. The Greeks find out on 12/27/95 and insist that the island is Greek according to their maps, so a Greek tugboat must be used, the Turks respond on 12/29/95 that the island is Turkish. After an exchange of verbal notes both sides agree to use the Greek tugboat and that the title of the island is in dispute.
On 1/24/96 the Greek TV station ANT1 gets hold of the diplomatic notes and reports on them. On 1/24/96 the mayor of Kalymnos lands on the island with members of the Greek press, and plants a Greek flag as a publicity stunt. In response journalist from the Turkish newspaper Hürriyet fly to the island and replace the Greek flag with a Turkish one, and publish picture. Political tempers escalate and by 1/30/96 a Greek warship arrives and Greek commandoes slip ashore and change the flag back to Greek, again. A Turkish warship arrives on 1/31 and Turkish commandoes slip ashore and change the flag back to Turkish, AGAIN. When the Greeks notice they send a helicopter to recon the situation and it crashes, the Greeks claim Turkish AAA was responsible, and the Turks deny it.
All this is being reported by the Press of the 2 nations in the most lurid and rabble-rousing hate speech imaginable, pushing governments of the 2 nations to a military showdown. Then the US intervenes as a go between (the 2 countries were refusing to talk to each other) and brought things to an end.
The commandoes of the 2 nations were apparently never on the island at the same time. The 20 Turkish commandoes were actually Turkish journalists, who were long gone when the Greek navy arrived. No one was imprisoned, though frankly the Press of both sides should have been.
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Jimbo7       6/5/2013 11:46:33 AM
oh....ok it's only a normal thing with the press however as far as the helicopter was concerned photos were shown and the body of the heli and pictures were taken and the bulletholes were shown
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