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Subject: Most Powerful Military of All Time in Terms of Global Percentage
Aeb4ever    1/13/2006 1:20:45 AM
What was the most powerful military of all time in terms of global share of military power? For example, the USA is currently ranked at having about 53% of total naval power. I am referring in terms of all branches vs the world. My votes would be either the Mongols at height, Romans at height, English at height, USA after WWII, or USA after Cold War. Can’t make a guess at each countries percentage though. Fell free to add your own list or make a guess at the percentages of mine.
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The Lizard King    RE:The US was a much smaller place when we cut our losses - PG   1/13/2006 3:38:46 PM
The Russians & French were able to sell their way out of North America.
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Aeb4ever    USA after WWII   1/13/2006 8:41:54 PM
I know the USSR may make this a tough sell, but the USA was the only country with nukes; thats got to count for something.
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mond    RE:Empire Building   1/13/2006 8:59:06 PM
Lizard King wrote >undeveloped peoples/lands/nations. The Germans, Romans, and Greeks, held advanced peoples/nations.< The implication is clear: The British Empire was the equivalent of the cowardly playground bully. Have you heard of the War of the Spanish Succession 1701 –1714 (Duke of Marlborough). Seven Years War 1756-1763 (The single most important reason why Americans and Canadians speak English not French). Napoleonic Wars 1792-1815 (You have heard of Wellington?) Crimean War 1854-1855 These wars were fought for various reasons (British empire building, French empire prevention, Russian empire expansion etc) but non-the-less contested between modern militaries. Lizard King Also wrote > "Canada, Sth Africa, Australia, New Zealand, India were the wealthiest of any of the acquired colonies of the european powers." Wealthiest yes, hardest to conquer, no...< What makes you think that peoples that are technologically less developed are not just as proud, fearsome and determined as the empire builders. Gurkha War?? Sikh Wars?? Zulu War?? These ‘undeveloped peoples’ were among the most skilful, ferocious and courageous peoples that have ever lived. As the learned gf0012-aust wrote: you really need to do your research.
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verdunjp    RE:To Mond   1/13/2006 9:45:22 PM
Are you aware that 1/4 of canadians speaks french?
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Cato    RE:Empire Building...Mond   1/13/2006 10:30:04 PM
Let's not forget about the Maori wars. Handed the Brits their collective asses on more than one occasion using little more than big sticks and facial tattoos. Cato
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mithradates    On the brits   1/13/2006 10:52:58 PM
The purpose of this thread is to ascertain who had the "GREATEST" percentage of military power in various times of the world. No the British Empire was militarily the most powerful for it's day. But it wasn't the overwhelming military power, meaning an alliance of the next 2 or several powers could've represented more total military power than the British military. Now of course the Brits dominated the world, but their dominance was due more to their economic/cultural/diplomatic power, than through military power alone. The Brits could not have defeated Neopoleonic France by themselves. Nor could they've taken on Imperial Russia in the Crimean war alone. They would've lost WWI and WWII had they tried to take on Germany alone. They one through diplomatic skill, not sheer military might. Thus one must remember, that military might is only 1 component of many that defines a country's power, this is something that the former USSR never understood.
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hist_ed    RE:Most Powerful Military of All Time in Terms of Global Percentage    1/14/2006 1:16:28 AM
Didn't read all the other posts. My answer: The US, right now. And getting relatively stronger.
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mithradates    The real comparison   1/14/2006 1:55:30 AM
With the british discussion out of the way, I think the only 2 nations that have/had absolute dominance in terms of sheer military power, would be the Mongols/Yuan Dynasty at the height of it's power, and of course the American Empire(U.S) right now. U.S: Lets take a look at the U.S first. The current U.S military budget exceeds the next 15 competitors put together. It's navy is stronger than the next 10 competitors put together. In terms of strategic rivals, there's really only 3 regions on the planet that definitely has the potential to resist it, all three of them are of course within the "temperate" zone of Eurasia. Those regions being Russia(maybe India), and the industrial societies of Eastern Asia and Western Europe. None of these nations are even within an order of magnitude in terms of military power as measured by conventional forces. Beyond this Eurasian "advanced" zone, with few exceptions(Canada, Australia, Singapore...etc), the globe is still populated by backward agrarian societies that stand little chance of resistence to even modest numbers of American forces by themselves. For example, countries like Grenada or Haiti, can be conquored with no more than a few hundred U.S marines. America's logistical infrastructure is good enough to deploy over 800,000 troops roughly 11,000 miles away from it's borders in less than 6 monthes. That's an order of magnitude larger than any force that a competitor nation could hope to deploy to such a distance. It's land armies have unsurpassed wartime mobility. In the recent war against Iraq, American heavy armor forces were able to advance at a maximal pace of 370 miles into hostile territory in one single day, while not even stretching it's supply lines. Barring nuclear weapons, no single regional power or alliance of region powers can hope to defeat the United states in a real war right now. A few battles may be won here and there, but if the full brunt of the U.S military were placed on a nation, that country doesn't have a chance. And when I say real war, I mean when the U.S has the political will to win. Mongol Empire/Yuan Dyansty: Now Lets take a look at the Mongol empire. At it's height, it controlled 70% of all the war horses in Eurasia, during a time when calvery was the dominant weapon system of the world. It controlled at least an order of magnitude more calvery "equipment" than any other competitor on earth. At it's height, it had over 250,000 precision recurve archers(capable of accurate hits against man-sized targets at 300 yards), once again, an order of magnitude above any competitor. In terms of competitors, the military ranking of the world in the 11th to 12th century should look something like the following breakdown: 1. Chinese Empire and neighbors(Japan, Korea), 2. Karazham Shah Empire of Persia and neighbors(Khitans, Hashishins) 3. Seljic Turk Empire in Mesopotamia and neighbors(Egypt, Byzantium) 4. Russian Principalities and neighbors(Poles, Magyars...etc) 5. Teutonic German Empire and neighbors(Austrians, Norse, Franks) As you can see, all of these empires are within the Eurasian "temperate" zone. Beyond this Eurasian zone there are effectively no other militarily potent societies to speak off. I base my argument on the fact that both the Mayan and Sonhai empires of Latin America and Sub-saharan Africa has just collapsed into mini-dark ages of those regions. Thus, beyond Eurasia, I maintain that there was no society that can remotely compare to the Mongols in terms of raw military power. Now lets talk about logistics. A mongol horse-archer, carries 5 separate mounts(horses) on campagin. He carries 400 precision matched(splined?) arrows along with 20 lbs of powdered protein and another 20lbs of powdered milk. The food is enough to last him for 40 days, and then he can subsist for another 12 days on blood and milk from his mounts. Thus from the point of starting a campaign the average mongol trooper can last for 52 days before requring resupply. An average Tarpan horse can consistently travel 80 miles per day with rest and foraging time factored in. Thus 52 days x 80 mpd = 4160 miles. Thus the Mongol empire could move a maximum of 1 Ordu(10 Baktuns, 100,000 men) for a maximum of 4160 miles from it's point of supply(Inner mongolia/Northern China) without breaking it's logistical tail. A normal infantry army of the period from any of the listed Eurasian civilizations marched to war and carried roughly 50lbs of hardtack(which lasts of 2 weeks). The average european infantry soldier has a maximum normal speed of 10 miles per day while walking on dirt roads. The average Chinese soldier as a maximal normal speed of 40 miles per day by using the vast canal and paved highway networks that links the regions of China proper. The average Persian soldier could travel 20 miles per day on the paved highways of central asia. All of these sede
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fall out    RE:GF not you are getting off topic   1/14/2006 3:49:29 AM
"yes, and the tide started turning in 1942 - and guess who was bearing the brunt of it all?" Russia.
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gf0012-aust    RE:The real comparison   1/14/2006 3:51:20 AM
"would be the Mongols/Yuan Dynasty at the height of it's power"/i> the mongol empire starts at Genghis Khan - not at Kublai Khan, thus there is no Chinese Empire for this period. It is Mongolian. Just because Kublai adopts a chinese dynastic name later on in life doesn't convert the empire to a chinese one.
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