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Subject: What is the best way for the US to secure her borders?
JohnBarry    9/20/2004 12:52:59 PM
What is the best way for the US to secure her borders? What kind of force would it take to make US borders reasonably secure? How much manpower? Would you have a massive increase in the Border Patrol or create new military units for the role? How would you equip and organize the force. Would it be a standard light infantry, airmobile, mechanized, even old horse cavalry?
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terrain21u    RE:What is the best way for the US to secure her borders?   9/28/2004 9:34:29 PM
There is some truth to the article. One guy who was in my unit's parents came from Mexico but they made good lives for themselves. He generally looked down on those that had crossed to be migrant workers and such. He thought they had no drive or interest in success. That said, I still don't think that means those that do illegaly cross into this country are destinded to failure. While they do have their criminal elements the same could be said for any group that has come to this country. The Irish are a group that produced a number of criminal organizations and gangs. A lot of early Italians came with the intent to leave and go back home once they made their fortune. A lot wound up staying but maintained ties with people from their place of origin. It took two world wars to really end that. People have been sure that every group of immigrants that came to this country would never succeed or assimilate. The Germans, the Irish, the Italians, the Greeks, the assorted Eastern Europeans, etc. were predicted to fail in assimilating into the American culture. It takes time but eventually it does happen. There are some unique problems in the Mexicans and other Latino immigrants but they aren't insurmountable. Tackling those problems that we can, that will assist assimilation and trusting to American values to see the problem through I think holds a greater part of the answer. Not mines and walls on the border. Would anyone really want immigration laws like some European countries have? Where both your parents must be citizens that country for you to be a citizen.
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towgunner1960    RE:What is the best way for the US to secure her borders?   9/29/2004 1:05:12 AM
If we came up with a temporary worker program we could solve both countries problems. America would get the cheaper labor it needs for jobs Americans won't do, and once the worker finishes his job he or she would go back to Mexico with pockets full of American cash. This would vastly improve Mexico's economy. You could set it up so that you would get a temporary visa say, for eight months every two years. Then you go back and a new group of workers come into the U.S. for their eight month stint. Before you come into the U.S., You get a month long course in basic english, american customs and laws, plus an intense background check, etc. While you're here a portion of your income is invested in a bank. When you go back for 18 months off, you get a monthly check from your money that was invested Some basic rules should be based on behavior; if you screw up your visa is revoked and you are immediately sent back. If you come into this country illegally you are sentenced to three months imprisonment, sent back and banished from working in this country for 1? year. Both countries problems are solved and within a couple of years Mexico's economy is turned around. Then you can open the program for other countries.....
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scholar    RE:What is the best way for the US to secure her borders?   9/29/2004 9:26:16 AM
And ideally such a system would create an atmosphere in which migrants wouldn't fear the law and the clandestine nature of their movements and actions would evaporate. Moreover, it would give the US and Mexico the ability to identify and track people...good for keeping out any terrorists trying to pass as Mexicans.
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scholar    Thinking about Mexico in light of Beslan   9/29/2004 9:30:16 AM
The recent school massacre in Beslan, Ossetia reminded me once again of how fortunate we are here in North America. I mean, look at our neighbors: Quebecois, Anglo-Canadians, Mexicans. Even the lowliest dregs of Mexican society are infinitely preferable to, say, Chechans. We've got it good. Really good.
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tankerman    RE:Thinking about Mexico in light of Beslan   9/29/2004 12:39:22 PM
you go have a good point there, and the work program towgunner1960 came up with is a good one too in my opinion. we would have to enforce the rules though, which i can see being a problem because somebody out of touch with reality would throw a fit saying it unfair to the workers to punish them if they did something wrong. Then the court system would be tied up for no reason.
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Roman    RE:What is the best way for the US to secure her borders?   9/29/2004 11:41:01 PM
As an outsider who does not live in the U.S. and is not a U.S. citizen, but reads extensively about the U.S., I am shocked by how little you guys are doing to secure your borders. I constantly liberal claims that 'illegal immigrants do work American's won't do', and similar excuses. Our former Czechoslovak Socialist Republic government also began importing Vietnamese workers in the 1980s to do work 'Czechs and Slovaks won't do'... luckily communism collapsed and this insanity stopped. Of course Czechs and Slovaks (and Americans) are willing to do these jobs - it is just that the wages in these jobs have been depressed by immigrant labour so much that they did not while importing of labour was continuing. Once it stopped - viola! The wages in those sectors have risen and suddenly we have Czechs and Slovaks working in them! Wow, what magic! Not really - it is just basic economics - there is no such thing as a labour shortage in a market economy - supply and demand always equalize based on availability of labour, availability of jobs and wages. You are doing your poorest sections of society a disservice by importing cheap illegal labour. Of course, Mexico's poorest benefit by your actions. It is not really any of my business, but I consider the U.S. policies of laxness on illegal immigration insane, but ultimately it is your choice to make. As to the best solution, I think extensive inspections of employers to see whether they hire illegal immigrants and deportation of said immigrants plus fining of said employers would do wonders pretty quickly.
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Heorot    RE:Thinking about Mexico in light of Beslan   9/30/2004 8:13:24 AM
The work program proposed has no chance wile nonsense like this goes on: "Oakland halts DUI checkpoints after Hispanic leaders complain OAKLAND, Calif. The Oakland Police Department has halted its use of D-U-I checkpoints after the city's Hispanic leaders complained that the roadblocks were ensnaring too many illegal immigrants. D-U-I checkpoints allow police officers to demand drivers' licenses and proof of insurance. City leaders agree the roadblocks are an effective way to get drunken drivers off the streets. But Hispanic community leaders and City Council President Ignacio De La Fuente complained that the checkpoints were making life miserable for illegal immigrants who aren't licensed to drive but otherwise obey the law. Police Chief Richard Word has ordered a month-long moratorium on the checkpoints while the department drafts new guidelines. But City Councilmember Larry Reid says stopping the D-U-I checkpoints threatens public safety. "
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Heorot    RE:Thinking about Mexico in light of Beslan   9/30/2004 8:14:48 AM
In short, California can't operate without the illegals.
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joe6pack    RE:Thinking about Mexico in light of Beslan   9/30/2004 8:43:03 AM
"illegal immigrants who aren't licensed to drive but otherwise obey the law" California often acts like it is seperate country. Wow, so now illegal immigrants are now immune to laws that citizens have to obey. Maybe California should give up drivers licenses in general... they just make life tough on criminals in general. But again this goes back to this being a political and social mess and not really a military one.
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human7    RE:What is the best way for the US to secure her borders?   10/2/2004 9:18:13 AM
From joe6pack "Being blown up in a search for a job at McDonalds.. just doesn't quite mesh with my picture of America." I think you understate the problem. California has the 5th largest economy in the World. Illegal immigration is actually bankrupting California.
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