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Subject: What is the best way for the US to secure her borders?
JohnBarry    9/20/2004 12:52:59 PM
What is the best way for the US to secure her borders? What kind of force would it take to make US borders reasonably secure? How much manpower? Would you have a massive increase in the Border Patrol or create new military units for the role? How would you equip and organize the force. Would it be a standard light infantry, airmobile, mechanized, even old horse cavalry?
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human7    RE:From the mouth of a Federal Agent - joe6pack   9/26/2004 10:13:31 PM
Joe, don't hate the players hate the game. Do you know about the war that is going on down there?
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human7    RE:From the mouth of a Federal Agent   9/26/2004 10:18:48 PM
"Maybe use the extra income to put some more radiation detectors at US ports. if you are worried about securing US borders." Please look up the length of the US/Mexican border from a reliable source. When you get the actual number, please reevaluate your above statement to determine if it ridiculous.
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human7    RE:From the mouth of a Federal Agent   9/26/2004 10:21:20 PM ------------------ You'd think frequent gun battles along the U.S.-Mexico border between federal agents and citizen border-monitoring groups on this side, and drug and people smugglers on the other side, would make the national headlines. If you thought that, you'd be mistaken. Just ask Chris Simcox, owner of the Tombstone (Ariz.) Tumbleweed newspaper, and head of one such border group. He's trying to get the word out; few are listening and, apparently, that includes anyone in Washington. In an e-mail to select correspondents last month, Simcox said there was "another" shootout very similar to others that have occurred with increasingly frequency along remote areas of the Arizona border – areas known to be frequented by drug and alien smugglers and elements of Mexican "authorities" (which often has included federal troops and police) that escort them to the border. "Details are basically the same; shots fired, assailants get away, drugs seized," he writes. "The [Mexican] soldiers we captured on tape have been seen laying down suppression fire during the drug dealers' dash back across the border – this is not hyperbole – our guys are being fired upon from the other side of the border and they will not return fire. …" "A high-speed car chase ended with Bisbee police, Border Patrol agents and a detail of the United States Marines coming under automatic weapons fire near the U.S./Mexico border two miles west of Naco, Ariz., on Tuesday morning, Feb. 16," reported Simcox. "Federal Bureau of Investigation agent Susan Herskovits confirmed on Wednesday that the agency is involved in the investigation, because it involves an assault on federal law-enforcement agents and involves gunfire from across the international boundary with Mexico." On Feb. 19, says Simcox, "we had yet another incident involving automatic gunfire directed at our [law-enforcement] agents." While he says he wasn't close enough to confirm, it appeared that, at a distance, the law-enforcement "vehicles were full of bullet holes." While none of these most recent gun battles has produced any casualties, that's not to say U.S. citizens and federal agents tasked with guarding our borders haven't been hurt or killed in this escalating border war. In 2002, U.S. Park Service Ranger Kris Eggle (pronounced egg-lee) was killed in a drug-related shooting (the perp used an AK-47). Other agents have been wounded, and American citizens captured or threatened. In my book, Illegals: The Imminent Threat Posed by Our Unsecured U.S.-Mexico Border," I document this longstanding problem that has been occurring with more frequency in the past few years. There is even photographic evidence that armed Mexican troops regularly patrol within feet of the U.S. border. The book contains documentation from eyewitnesses who said they've seen Mexican military and paramilitary police assisting Mexican nationals with crossing illegally into the U.S. And witnesses have described how some Mexican army and federal police units actually provide armed cover for smugglers packing drugs into our country. I describe how, back in 1985, an American father and his daughter were briefly held at gunpoint inside the United States and on their own property by a gun-toting squad of Mexican soldiers – who were eventually let go by U.S. government officials with their weapons. A few other news agencies have reported some incidents of gunfire along the border, but almost always details are lacking, hard questions are never asked (or answered) and the incursions are usually dismissed as "accidental border crossings" by American and Mexican authorities. Consequently, the issue hasn't caught on nationally. But why? Because few in the national media want to discuss it. Even fewer politicians do. And almost no one in Washington wants to admit the fact that our already porous borders are spiraling further out of control – perhaps irretrievably so. Hispanic voters and cheaper labor is more important than the lives of American citizens and law-enforcement personnel. Americans are facing another election cycle. Much of the banter thus far has centered around "traditional" issues – taxes, jobs, the economy, ad nauseum. But perhaps for the first time since the Cold War, national security is also an issue, thanks to 9-11. That's where our borders problem fits in; it simply is not a good thing for security when porous borders are ignored. Still, the major candidates for office largely ignore this vital issue. Anyone who assumes the Wild West faded into the sunset a hundred years ago hasn't spent much time along the border. Then again, that's probably a good thing; you might live longer.
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human7    Mexicans declare border war   9/26/2004 10:26:36 PM ----------------------------------------- Mexican border town has "declared war" on the United States, vowing to clog the U.S. court system with illegal immigrants, because, city officials say, the U.S. Border Patrol is dumping in their town Mexican nationals caught crossing the border illegally. Officials from Agua Prieta, a Mexican city of about 130,000, are also claiming that the U.S. government has repeatedly neglected to inform them about new waves of immigrants before they are routed there from points in the U.S. after capture. Consequently, Agua Prieta leaders are teaching Mexican nationals how to cross into the U.S. and stay there, by instructing them to request a court hearing -- a tactic sure to clog the judicial system with possibly thousands of illegal immigrants who want their day in court. Every day, Mexican officials complain, U.S. Border Patrol officials round up thousands of illegals who have crossed the border, then send them right back home, through gates opening into Agua Prieta. In fact, an estimated 2 million Mexicans jumped the fence and entered the U.S. illegally at Agua Pietra in the past two years, according to a Fox News report yesterday. Ironically, city officials from Agua Prieta complain that the horde of illegals is causing inordinate amounts of crime, drug abuse and homelessness -- complaints also lodged by U.S. landowners and ranchers who live on the U.S. side of the border, where illegals are attempting to gain access to the states. The difference, say U.S. residents, is that the illegal aliens don't belong in the United States -- they belong to Mexico, if they have not entered by legal means. Nevertheless, Agua Prieta officials are advertising offers of free legal advice on radio and in newspapers to help those that get caught remain in the U.S. "Our plan is to let people know the rights they have," Agua Prieta Mayor Daniel Noriega told Fox. Experts say that if only a small portion of illegal immigrants request court appearances, the system could be hopelessly clogged and the Border Patrol similarly overwhelmed. Mexico's counterpart to the U.S. Border Patrol, Patrulla Fronteriza officers are seen here interdicting illegal aliens on the Mexican side of the border. The Mexican government, however, appears to be making an effort to complement U.S. Border Patrol efforts to stem the tide of illegal aliens flowing across the border. A new Mexico-based counterpart to the U.S. Border Patrol, called Patrulla Fronteriza, has been formed to interdict Mexican nationals on Mexico's side of the border, before they cross into the U.S. This latest development comes on the heels of other incidents that have seen increasing tensions between Washington and Mexico City in regards to how best to deal with the problem of increasing illegal immigration. Earlier last month, Mexican government officials came to Washington to complain about "vigilantism" being practiced by U.S. landowners who own property along the vast southwestern border. Mexican Foreign Minister Rosario Green complained to Secretary of State Madeleine Albright and other U.S. officials that some illegal immigrants had received poor treatment while traversing private land. She alleged that the detention of illegals by private U.S. ranchers -- mostly in Arizona -- had resulted in two deaths and seven injuries since January 1999. "The issue of the Mexicans and the Arizona ranchers is seen, without a doubt, as a red alert that could generate a relatively tense situation," Green said in Mexico City. Meanwhile -- against a sinister backdrop of possible bounty hunting by Mexican soldiers -- U.S. Border Patrol officials say they are increasingly worried about "armed incursions" into U.S. territory by heavily armed Mexican army units. Officials cited a recent incident in which Mexican soldiers chased -- then fired shots at -- Border Patrol agents. On Mar. 14, shortly after 10 p.m. local time, "two Mexican army Humvees carrying about 16 armed soldiers drove across the international boundary and into the United States near Santa Teresa, New Mexico," said officials with the National Border Patrol Council, a nationwide union that represents all 8,250 non-supervisory Border Patrol employees. The Mexican troops pursued a Border Patrol vehicle, which was "outfitted with decals and emergency lights (that were activated for much of the pursuit) over a mile into the United States." Mexican anti-drug police and specialized anti-narcotic army troops make routine "incursions" into U.S. territory, the council said.
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joe6pack    RE:From the mouth of a Federal Agent - joe6pack   9/26/2004 10:34:46 PM
"Joe, don't hate the players hate the game. Do you know about the war that is going on down there" I can't say I'm familiar with the day to day issues of the southern states being a northerner. My opinions on policy are just my opinions. However, I'm very familiar with the US army. What annoys me with the comments made by your friend the federal agent, is the tone. If he is so upset with the situation that he beleives the army would do a better job.. He should really consider a new line of work. Does he think the military never gets its hands tied by politics? That the army never gets screwed by policy or budget? My comments to him would be to suck it up pal. Write his congressman and senators or resign in protest. If he is to the point that he thinks putting troops on the border is the right answer to stop illegal immigration, I'd have an issue with that. It's a law enforcement problem (which there are laws that prevent the US military from functioning as civillian law enforcement on US soil) If the Mexican army decides to invade.. Then call up the 3rd ID.
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joe6pack    RE:From the mouth of a Federal Agent   9/26/2004 10:45:30 PM
"Please look up the length of the US/Mexican border from a reliable source. When you get the actual number, please reevaluate your above statement to determine if it ridiculous." It's about 2000 miles or 10,560,000ft give or take. But I believe we patrol more than 3% percent which is about the amount of cargo that gets checked coming into the US. But the bottom line is that securing the US border in the manner people are discussing on this thread is idiotic. For your friends theory of using the military.. Compare the length of the border with the total number of active duty members in the US military then divide by three for 8 hour shifts.. Tell me how big a hole we would still have the border? Oh we left out Canada, who has an even longer border with the US.
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human7    RE:From the mouth of a Federal Agent   9/26/2004 11:21:17 PM
The border with Canada is not as problematic as the one with Mexico. You are definately entitled to your opinions. I just thought it would be interesting pose the question that was posted here to someone in the know. "If he is so upset with the situation that he beleives the army would do a better job.. He should really consider a new line of work." He was in the Army for many years. Like I said these are not my statements so I am not going to argue with you about what somebody else said. All I have is first hand accounts of what people tell me who are on the frontline done there.
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human7    civillian law enforcement   9/26/2004 11:22:37 PM
If I am not mistaken, most countries in the world do not leave the protection of their borders to civillian law enforcement agencies.
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human7    RE:civillian law enforcement   9/26/2004 11:26:29 PM
"If I am not mistaken, most countries in the world do not leave the protection of their borders to civillian law enforcement agencies" Mexico included.
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ex-98C    RE:civillian law enforcement   9/26/2004 11:28:06 PM
Depends on if the border is with a hostile country or not. "guard" duties on peaceful borders are generally conducted by police or at worst para-military forces. Mexico as a country is not a threat to the US.
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