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Subject: Why all the hostilities towards China?
analdestroyer    1/19/2009 12:29:29 AM
I sometimes wonder why all the hostilities towards china in this forum?, i even read that someone suggested the US to send B2 to wreck chinese three gorges dam? where all of this come from, is it from jealousy?, certaintly not as you americans has been living so well off, is it because dare i say 'fear' as the chinese are rapidly catching up on you, certainly this is exagerrating, no matter how fast the chinese are growing its still decades away to be on the same footing as the US, or is it because they are different? different in their way of doing things that you guys are so worked up, different yet produces the same or arguably better results, for example china is not democracy so it must be evil, yes china is not democracy nor it needed to be at the moment, but its heading that way, for democracy to work first the state must achieve stability and to achieve stability means continuing economic growth, after all democray is where the people become more affluent and so they demand more say on how goverments run things, remember democray does not make western countries rich, they become rich because of colonization (mercantilism) and industrialization (which is what the chinese are doing), secondly your mantra of free market capitalism over state controlled economy, you seems to think that the state is naturally idiot and the market is naturally brilliant, guess again it was an epic mistake, it is you who now moving toward state control—by nationalizing the banking and car industries, and imposing heavy new regulation on the financial industry, accusing them of yuan depreciation while ignoring the fact that is has been increasing by 21.5% towards the dollars, the chinese are a nation of learners they learn from others success and mistakes, they want to avoid the fate of russia in 90's moving too fast from socialism economy to free market and democracy, you americans called it shock therapy which proves to be all shock and no therapy, and you might be suprised that 8 out of 9 of its top leaderships is engineers instead of attorneys and lawyers like in the US you should read this article on newsweek http://www.newsweek.com/id/178810/page/1 its quite rare US media potrays China in positive light
 
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Godofgamblers    strat   2/22/2009 10:29:18 PM









Have to agree with you Nich. Generally you know my point of view is to let everyone have their say, but for AD to claim the cultural revolutino was a milestone in chinese culture is so ignorant, it's tantamount to saying that the Killing Fields was a positive development in the intellectual and cultural history of Cambodia.







 







"Socialist Realism" was a sort of mini dark ages for all the countries that had to undergo it. Forcing artists, writers and painters, film makers, intellecturals, all the creative people to regulate their work according to communist ideology ---with the punishment being torture and death---- was a cultural nadir in world history. Having met many Polish intellectuals who lived thru this phase of their country's history, i can attest that many lives were ruined, families ripped apart and the nation was poorer as a whole.







 







AD, the search for a "pure" communism, a "pure" islam means you want to walk down the road of the Taliban, the Khmer Rouge. If you are simply a Pakistani (which i suspect) using this angle to bash India, that's one thing, but if you have sincerely brainwashed yourself into believing this sort of ideology, i sincerely hope you never have power over anyone.







 







 














Heh talk all you wants but facts speak louder than words, if it is all failure why don't you see how China is now, compared to when it was 40 years before, yes i have no power over anyone, except from my employees at my small business establisment, unlike most of you guys here i am not going to pretend that i am somekind of hotshot who worked at some high tech defence industry, and im not going to pretend that i graduated at MIT, heck i just have my high school diploma, but what i found suprising is that this little fellow here all by himself, can exposed what most of you are here are: disgusting racists nothing more. and you i understand that you are from indonesia, which is still a developing country, have you realized lately what suharto dictactorship has brought you over the years of his power: STABILITY and economic PROSPERITY, i hope you still remember how strong and powerful you are under suharto, in which none of your neighbours dare to mess with you, and now see how tiny malaysia dare to display her navy at your backyard in sipadan and ligitan islands and there is nothing you can do about it, that will never happen under suharto rules, some people and some countries need to have strong leader with iron fist to get their nations into shape




If you call it stability and prosperity, then I'd hate to see what you would call "harsh"! The gov't of both PRC/Indonesia are criminal and irresponsible to their citizens, but then, with no civil rights or public representation, the peoples would not know of the crimes being perpetrated against them.


Oh really? are you sure you have your facts straight about Indo?
 
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Nichevo    SYSOPs do your thing?   2/23/2009 2:41:18 AM
Okay, I say pull the plug.  This guy is obviously posting drunk or stoned and has nothing further to offer.  If you don't zap him now, you will share the responsibility when he hurts himself on his own keyboard.
 
This is one man's opinion; I defer to authority and to anyone else who finds profit or pleasure in toying with the guy, but wow, he passed the retard test for me. 
 
AD, go destroy yourself, you are an ass.
 
"this little fellow here all by himself, can exposed what most of you are"
 
I certainly can believe you never graduated high school.   Others here are being nice to you - patronizing even - by calling you educated, but at least I am being honest when I call you mentally challenged.

Now I think that's about all I have to say to you at the present time.  Good luck with that business of yours; in fact that would be my final advice to you:  Don't quit your day job. 
 
But do try and remember about the paragraphing, it is the best feedback you will get here.
 
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analdestroyer       2/23/2009 2:54:54 AM

Yes, but anyone who lived thru the Suharto era would not have a 100% positive view. Yes there was prosperity and stability, but many other facets of life suffered. This is why it would be hard to find a reasonable person extolling Suharto as you would find few extolling the glories of Stalin.

 

I think that is why you find yourself in the crosshairs on this forum, AD. Your view lacks nuance and thus many suspect your sincerity. I believe you are someone who is well educated and intelligent; it is not hard to believe that you own a small business. But perhaps you should look with a more critical eye on things...

 

Yes, i am from indonesia.... where are you from?


I heard from my indonesian friends that under soeharto there is virtually no terrorism in Indonesia, because he won't allow islamic extremism to take hold, and won't allow them to hold much power in the government either, and most likely won't allow east timor to separate from your republic, most of them thinks that during soeharto rules everything was safe, economy flourished, granted you might not be able to name your shop with chinese characters or even english names from what i heard, but in all honesty don't you think that this is a small price to pay for stabilities and security that you enjoyed?, "change" does not always bring stability much needed in developing countries, change usually means bloodshed in developing countries, and western style democracy can be counterproductive in some countries, and i honestly think that most people in developing countries will not pay much attention to how their governmet run things as long as there is food on the table,

I sincerely believes that integrating China to the global order is essential, as stated in http://www.newsweek.com/id/177410/page/2 let me quote the newsweek article on this subject;  "integration should be for this era of U.S. foreign policy what containment was for the previous one. In substance, however, the two approaches could not be more different. Whereas containment sought to keep the Soviet Union out, integration seeks to bring China in. The goal should be to make China a pillar of a globalized world, so invested in the current system that it sees it as in its interests to keep things running smoothly. U.S. foreign policy should focus on what China does, not what China is. Efforts to force China to become like the West will fail. Remember too that China is evolving on its own: it is already far more open than it was 10 or 20 years ago, and it is likely to become more open as time passes. Integration will create incentives and pressures for the extension of the rule of law, transparency and accountability. Political and economic freedoms are more likely to grow from China's evolution than from American hectoring.
That said, there's plenty Beijing needs to do, too. It should continue to exercise restraint on Taiwan. It should allow its currency to keep rising to a more natural level, in order to prevent its trading partners from turning to protectionism. And it should reign in Chinese nationalism. As communism fades and materialism fails to satisfy demands for a good life, nationalism could fill the void. Once unleashed, such a force is hard to control. To avoid this risk, China needs to keep growing economically and gradually open politically.

To steer this most important relationship in the right direction, Washington and Beijing should hold regular, high-level consultations. Consultations are to foreign policy what location is to real estate: not everything, but almost. The Bush administration made a good start with the cabinet-level Strategic Economic Dialogue (which also covers energy and environmental matters) and its military counterpart. Both should be extended and expanded by the new president.

Such talks won't be enough, however. It makes no sense for the finance ministers of seven of the leading industrial countries to continue meeting without China; it similarly makes no sense for the leaders of the G8 industrialized countries to convene absent their Chinese counterpart. China should be made a member of both groups and should be encouraged to cooperate more fully with the International Energy Agency to prepare for interruptions of fuel supplies.

Even if all this happens, China and the United States aren't likely to become allies. But they could build a relationship based on selective cooperation, complemented by an understanding to limit fallout from inevitable disagreements. Both countries h

 
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analdestroyer       2/23/2009 3:03:20 AM

Okay, I say pull the plug.  This guy is obviously posting drunk or stoned and has nothing further to offer.  If you don't zap him now, you will share the responsibility when he hurts himself on his own keyboard.


 

This is one man's opinion; I defer to authority and to anyone else who finds profit or pleasure in toying with the guy, but wow, he passed the retard test for me. 

 

AD, go destroy yourself, you are an ass.


 


"this little fellow here all by himself, can exposed what most of you are"

 

I certainly can believe you never graduated high school.   Others here are being nice to you - patronizing even - by calling you educated, but at least I am being honest when I call you mentally challenged.





Now I think that's about all I have to say to you at the present time.  Good luck with that business of yours; in fact that would be my final advice to you:  Don't quit your day job. 

 

But do try and remember about the paragraphing, it is the best feedback you will get here.



mate get out of your parents basement and talk some sense please, if anyone needs banning it would be you, i talk nothing but sense in this forum, which one of my post is offensive? i ask you, except for a reply in which i was being called a commie troll without a reason first, if that is not racist then whats is? what do you expect me to do when somebody call me that?, to just take it?  please your post is just further exposing how immature you really are, i have no interest in wasting my time with you man  
 
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Godofgamblers       2/23/2009 5:57:58 AM
Hehe i'm glad you are aware of the indo boxing scene hehe. let me respond to your views on the 'good ol days" of the suharto years tomorrow, it's 6pm here.... time to go home.
 
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analdestroyer       2/23/2009 6:14:49 AM

Hehe i'm glad you are aware of the indo boxing scene hehe. let me respond to your views on the 'good ol days" of the suharto years tomorrow, it's 6pm here.... time to go home.


Yea im pretty much a fan of his since he beat Marquez , but he needs to step up though, are you a fan of boxing? i heard Chris will be fighting Rocky Juarez in the US next saturday February 28th at Houston?s Toyota Center, i will be there, hopefully he can get past Juarez if he is to make noise in the US. anyway see you tomorrow man
 
 
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HERALD1357    I'm waiting to hear this one, myself.   2/23/2009 7:15:43 AM

Hehe i'm glad you are aware of the indo boxing scene hehe. let me respond to your views on the 'good ol days" of the suharto years tomorrow, it's 6pm here.... time to go home.

Just how bad was it, GoG?
 
 
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HERALD1357    I'm waiting to hear this one, myself.   2/23/2009 7:26:17 AM
One hand clapping.






1. Sure you can call me a commie troll for whatever reason in your head, to be equally racist you are a curry loving towelhead hairy monkey indian ass licker  i didn't fire the first shot, but willling to dance all night long


















You are so ignorant about history of WG, and you seem to forget that there was no rice in the bowl during 1959-1962 "Mao-made" disaster. In short, you are a commie, and that is now proven true. I didn't call you name merely as an insult. Instead, I call you a commie because you are a commie, as you have proven yourself already. Your ignorance on other's culture and social problems is equally staggering. Given your knowledge level about WG, I can come up with the conclusion that you are also ignorant about the rest of Chinese history, probably except the part where commie historians tried so hard to fit Marxist historic views to incompatible Chinese history. The more you post, the more you reveal you're indeed a commie troll.



In 5 years time when you leave your teenage years you will look back at the posts you made on this forum and laugh, everyone else is doing that already.



Well trained you are; button pusher. You are almost as good as the last PRC bandit tool I chased out of here. Problem is that you leave :"tells", language traits that show you thinking in 'glyphs' and trying to translate into "words" to pull it off. There is a difference in the smear that each analogous idea covers. That is why I see that you try to use English language tactics on a person who uses English as just ONE of the several languages he uses, and I just guffaw at YOU.     

Incidentally he's not a teenager. And you need to learn a lot more about the subtleties of ENGLISH.
 
Too bad. You need to do better if I'm going to get my morning belly laugh. Right now its just a chuckle.
 
Herald
 
 
 
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analdestroyer       2/23/2009 8:00:48 AM

One hand clapping.













1. Sure you can call me a commie troll for whatever reason in your head, to be equally racist you are a curry loving towelhead hairy monkey indian ass licker  i didn't fire the first shot, but willling to dance all night long






































You are so ignorant about history of WG, and you seem to forget that there was no rice in the bowl during 1959-1962 "Mao-made" disaster. In short, you are a commie, and that is now proven true. I didn't call you name merely as an insult. Instead, I call you a commie because you are a commie, as you have proven yourself already. Your ignorance on other's culture and social problems is equally staggering. Given your knowledge level about WG, I can come up with the conclusion that you are also ignorant about the rest of Chinese history, probably except the part where commie historians tried so hard to fit Marxist historic views to incompatible Chinese history. The more you post, the more you reveal you're indeed a commie troll.







In 5 years time when you leave your teenage years you will look back at the posts you made on this forum and laugh, everyone else is doing that already.








Well trained you are; button pusher. You are almost as good as the last PRC bandit tool I chased out of here. Problem is that you leave :"tells", language traits that show you thinking in 'glyphs' and trying to translate into "words" to pull it off. There is a difference in the smear that each analogous idea covers. That is why I see that you try to use English language tactics on a person who uses English as just ONE of the several languages he uses, and I just guffaw at YOU.     



Incidentally he's not a teenager. And you need to learn a lot more about the subtleties of ENGLISH.


 

Too bad. You need to do better if I'm going to get my morning belly laugh. Right now its just a chuckle.


 


Herald


 

 
Man what the heck are you talking about?, im just typing pure english, not shakespeare plays, thats good if you can talk fluently in another languages (we got something in common after all) other than english which i see as an advantage instead of a handicap, and stop watching james bond movies, not everyone here who disagrees with you is a PRC communist members

 
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Softwar    KKN   2/23/2009 10:34:32 AM
Ah - now the shoe fits..
 
So AD - do you have ties with Soharto or are you doing service to some of his relatives?  After what they did to your government - I would not be surprise if you are using gold to probe people.
 
His son Bambang lives in California after he scammed millions from your government (and mine) doing service with ENRON trying to build electric power plants for Java.  I think he is in a mansion right next to a pop star. 
 
So - is the Paiton Power plant in operation yet?  I always wondered if it is still dead after 20 years of trying to build it with Soharto relavtives sucking all the money out in bribes and kickbacks.  I provided a ton of FOIA documents to PLN (the state run electric company) lawyers to invalidate most of the deals because of the known corruption.  Heck, our Commerce Department wrote volumes on the Indonesian "first family involvment" - key words that describe the details of billions in kickbacks required to do business.
 
Soharto's daughter Tutut had herself a sweet heart deal with PT Energi Sengkang - I think they paid out about $25 million in bribes to her before the plant construction was called off.  All in all - the KKN (corruption, collusion and nepotism) cost your government around $15 to $16 billion - and none of the power plants ever made it into operation.
 
So - if you have power (electric power that is) - its a wonder.  Right now - most of your fellow Indonesians can't run a 60 watt light bulb and a hot plate - thanks in part to Soharto and his relatives requiring kick-backs.
 
Still, this fits out nicely guys - consider the Indonesian LIPPO bank and all of its friends.  Riady donated money illegally to Bill Clinton.  In fact, Riady's gardener contributed $450,000 in a single check to Clinton - with these fine words on video "James Riady sent me".  Riady gave him $500,000 but the gardener got to keep $50,000 before he blew town and never returned. 
 
Of course, the LIPPO bank was implicated in far deeper dealings with a ton of money coming from its Beijing partner - a front company for the PLA intelligence (MID) Department.
 
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