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Subject: Can Russia wipe the US and Britain of the map?
Military Strength    4/21/2004 3:56:09 PM
Moscow's Nezavisimaya Gazeta reports that Russia's strategic bombers and nuclear submarines "will deliver hypothetical nuclear strikes on the U.S. and Britain, while locating and destroying aircraft-carrier groups of the U.S. Navy." The massive air, sea and land maneuvers are being conducted in the wake of America's stunning victory over Iraq, a long time client state of Russia. The paper said the exercises are taking place because, "Russian military leaders have learned a lesson from the Iraq war, and intend to show the U.S. and its allies their determination to repel any potential threat coming from the West." The Russian military, in plans drawn up at the request of President Vladmir Putin, argues that the only way Russia can deal with an escalating regional conflict with the U.S., would be to employ nuclear weapons. Though Russia's military has been considerably downzied since the end of the Cold War, and its conventional forces hold little weight against a modern, equipped army, Russia has continued to invest heavily in strategic and tactical nuclear weapons. Sometime during the 90s, Russia attained nuclear superiority over the U.S. While Russia's large, strategic nuclear weapons have remained in parity with the U.S., Russia's tactical nuclear arsenal has been estimated to include between 20,000 to 40,000 weapons. At the same time Russia has continued its nuclear buildup, the U.S. has virtually destroyed its arsenal of tactical nuclear warheads. Under orders from the Bush administration, the U.S. has also been moving to further reduce the U.S. strategic arsenal. Currently, the nation's most modern fleet of ICBM, the MX missiles, are being destroyed. The Russian military exercises show a desire by the Russian military to deal with the huge technological lead U.S. conventional forces have, demonstrated by Operation Iraqi Freedom. According to Nezavisimaya Gazeta, the Russian exercises "will be linked with destroying the U.S. satellite group in order to neutralize the NAVSTAR global navigation system, the Keyhole optoelectronic intelligence satellites, and the Lacross radio-locating intelligence satellites." The paper said these maneuvers, "Under actual conditions of a war this would 'blind' the Pentagon and does not let the U.S. use high-precision weapons against Russian military groups." So far, the exercises are to include Four Tu-160 and nine Tu-95MS strategic bombers, 12 Tu-22M3 long-range bombers, and four Il-78 flying tankers will be involved in the maneuvers on May 17-18. The maneuvers are of a "global scale," the paper said. Major-General Igor Khvorov, commander of the 37th air army of the High Commander-in-Chief, said that the official objective of the exercise is to polish cooperation between the long-range aviation, the Navy, and other branches of the army in the western, eastern, northern, and southern regions of the Russian Federation, and over the world's oceans. This emphasizes a global scale of the impending maneuvers. Submarines of the Northern and Pacific fleets will launch ballistic missiles. Nuclear strategic and multi-purpose submarines, surface warships of different types, coastal missile and anti-aircraft units, and the missile-carrying, pursuit, and anti-submarine aviation will be involved in the exercise. The paper also noted that Russian warships sent to the Arabian Sea to take part in an exercise with the Indian Navy will support strategic units. They will find and destroy U.S. Los Angeles class submarines and deliver missile strikes at enemy warships.
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Military Strength    RE:Can Russia wipe the US and Britain of the map?   4/21/2004 4:09:28 PM
i think they could with their capability they could wipe out the world.
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gf0012-aust    Can Russia wipe the US and Britain of the map?   4/21/2004 6:20:02 PM
anyone with a nuke could blow up bits of the world - so whats your point? India has conducted naval exercises with the UK and France in the last few weeks - having the Russians play around in the Indian pond does not equate to an alliance of any note. If the USN was able to trawl around Kamkachka for 30+ years even when the Russians designated it a heavy ASW pond, what makes you think that they've got any better at ASW work? They could't kill attack class subs at the peak of the cold war (and they did try to depth cahrge a few nukes to the top). They certainly haven't improved their ASW capability since then Take away russias nukes and its just a very big military without the logistical capability to support a prolonged action. All this bluff and bluster is a legacy of feeling hemmed in due to a growing NATO. The west isn't threatening Russia, they just have yet to work out who their new enemies are.
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Doz44    RE:Can Russia wipe the US and Britain of the map?   4/22/2004 8:10:48 AM
None of it really means anything. Russia needs the U.S for financial support. They would be screwed without it. It is all just flag-waving for the press, and yes Russia could nuke anyone, which would seriously ruin 'anyones' day but why bother?
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OplotMira    RE:Can Russia wipe the US and Britain of the map? - Russia not puppy of US   5/2/2004 2:26:45 PM
Russia dependent on US aid? I think not. With a considerable energy crisis coming up due to predicted shortages in world oil supply, and India/China set to spearhead the developement in the world economy, I'd rather say it's the US which will have to play ball to energy rich Russia in the future. Sincerely OplotMira
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bsl    RE:Reality check   5/2/2004 8:02:09 PM
1)It has been the conclusion of American analysts, military planners, and the government, since, roughly, the mid-to-late 1950s, that the Soviets had the capability of destroying America as an advanced country. The same groups have believed America had the equivalent power with respect to the USSR for a bit longer. American policy through the Cold War, since that era, was based on this fundamental axiom. Nothing has changed in the years, since. 2)At present, Russia functions, essentially, on resource exports. Mostly oil. Other parts of the Russian economy may be coming around. Or, they may not be. It's open to question. Without oil exports, Russia is bankrupt, fiscally, and as an even remotely "modern" society. Even Russian (Soviet) opinion, for generations, is that a country dependent on resource exports to maintain itself is not much of a country. Unless and until Russia puts more of it's economy on a sound footing, the whole place is a shaky, house of cards apt to fall in the first stiff breeze. The fact that Russia sells some of it's most advanced military technology to China, a country it considers a real military threat, shows how shaky things are. Officially, it needs the hard currency to maintain some of it's more important design bureaus and production lines. Unofficially, Moscow is not necessarily in effective control of all parts of Russia, even today. America? Sorry. Still open for business. Still the strongest, most fundamentally sound economy in the world. And, one of the most resistant to collapses in the international energy market. Europe might be strangled. America would be hurt, and readjust to even a total, permanent cut-off in no more than a generation. In that hypothetical event, worry. What followed could well be an American imperium.
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mrgenie    RE:Can Russia wipe the US and Britain of the map?   5/14/2004 9:22:46 PM
You all have to open a somewhat more open view on global scale! the world is changing rapidly right now! I agree with alot of you guys! you all talk right things! but you all have to put it together! Russia indeed sells weapons and technology to China, to get hard yuan-currency, they are selling oil to America(for hard Dollar) and Oil to Europa(the Netherlands import 84% of their oil from russia) but the latest test shown that the Russian nukes don't even get airborne!! and if they do! the electronics are about 20-45years old, if some of you is a engineer, you know what that means, if you program them to strike london berlin or New York, they might even fall on Moscow with a Probability to miss their original target of estimated 60-90%. IF the rocket gets Airborne, and IF the Electronic-guidance system does work, and IF the order reaches the officer in command, and IF they have the time to launch before NATO takes out their lancing facilities..there are alot of IF's in the first place. But it's not the main point, the Main point is china, china is increasing their defence budget with 10-15% each year, they now officially spend 60Billion on military, inofficially twice as much, take into account they pay 10% of the salery the USA pays the soldiers the Chinese can do great stuff with this budget. Russia and Chinese borders are about 3500km, which russia cannot defend not in a million years! USA is controlling oil in the middle east, USA imports only 1,4% of it's oil from the Middle east, China is importing over 80% of it's oil from the middle east, China is a expending army, and a expending politic over taiwan(and inofficially even more then that) the USA cannot wedge war against this Dictatiorial country, so, if China will expent, you cut down their oil supply like the USA did with japan 2Months before pearl harbour(what surprise attack?? of course Japan will attack if you cut their oil supply, there was no surprise, they knew it all along) anyway, china also knows the power of USA to cut oil, BUT!!!! what oil fields are within the reach of the Chinese empire, Siberia, indeed, they can cross Russian border, simulations take about 2weeks untill china has full control of siberian oil fields, russia cannot do anything against it(this is the main reason why russian generals are critizising Putin for selling weapons the the Chinese) so China can and will use force against Russia in this case, what is the Russian way to prevent this? Well, have large nuclear arsanal to avoid china to get strange ideas, but, if the Russians openly declare the Nuclear Buildup they plan in 2007 against a possible attack of China, china might use the advantage they now have which is a incapable russian military not able to counterattack china, so Russia does not show any hostility against China, und just uses a expending NATO as excuse, but truely, russia and Nato will never end up into war, Russians trade with the rest of the world is for more then 60% with the European Union and I dont know about USA but i can imagine the oil deals with USA count for at least another 15% of their budget, so, they would cripple themself if they really would wedge war against NATO..that is not the case!!! all are afraid of Chinese growing powers!!! another in future problem might erase when Muslems would co-operate and found an alliance of Muslems, if they did so, they would have a big force to destroy russia in tchechnia, to help expend the islam and bring terror and dead to russian families. Russia even now cannot do much against it, so there are many reasons for russia to have a "potentially force of nuclear destruction" but it is definitly not to fight NATO! btw, I hear you talk about 20.000Nuclear rockets bombers etc etc??? well, dont overreact!! :) russia never had this ammount of nukes! :) fortunatly! how? they have as much nuclear plants as germany and england, technically it's impossible with this amount of nuklear plants to build this many bombs! at least with their plants which produce bad enriched materials. As far as I know they have between 6000 and 4000 Nuklear warheads, of which a rocket has between 6 and 18 warheads(airplane launched 2-4) and of all of them only a couple of hundreds can be fueled within the first 5hours of conflict, within this time most cruise missiles and NATO bombers and subs have already retaliated and destroyed their launching pods, dont forget, the biggest distance of any place on this planet from the ocean is about 2500kilometer which our rokets travel within 1hour! so, how they would ever oppose any threat? it's all fictional to think russia would ever come to the idea to oppose NATO!!!! a new weapon race would destroy their struggling economy anyway! and then the russians themself over 6Million live in Germany, hundrets of tausends in the Netherlands, Millions in the USA, EVERY family in russia has direct relatives on NATO territory, you think the Russians would ever allow their government to wedge war aga
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kjetski    RE:Can Russia wipe the US and Britain of the map?   5/17/2004 5:50:25 PM
And what is your point?
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elcid    Maybe not.   5/23/2004 9:24:09 AM
Russia attempted a nuclear exercise. It was trumpted big time, so you know they really expected it to work. The President was on board an SSBN to witness launches. None succeeded. ICBM launch ashore also failed. And these were the units that got the money. Other units have not had proper maintenance. Maybe Russia cannot shoot? Or not much. In the bad old days, when things were "well taken care of" about a third of Russian strategic missiles would not fire. So it really might be none today. [We are not that much better. The Polaris A-1 went to sea without warheads - the triggers didn't work and so we just bluffed. And NO MINUTEMAN has EVER launched from an operational silo. We tried too - three times. All failed. USAF found it all too embarassing - they just said "we fixed it" and stopped trying. Ask an engineer about what it means to have a complex system that never has worked. I am an engineer: it means the system does not work.]
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ex-98C    RE:Maybe not.   5/23/2004 10:05:51 AM
Cid do you have a source for the failed land launched failure? From what I remember the teo sea launches failed (one never launched and one blew up shortly after launch), but that the laned based portion of their exercise was fairly successful. Also do you have any info on their new announced "manuverable", hypersonic, intercontinental weapon?
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elcid    the land launch   5/29/2004 9:36:11 PM
I believe you can find a FYEO article on this matter.
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