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Subject: Major pure Commando force?
Shaka of Carthage    6/12/2003 2:03:32 PM
I do take issue with the comment about "major pure commando force". Why don't the Rangers qualify for that? And Marine Force Recon counts, but since its not part of SOCOM I can't argue that point. And they've been cut down to one company I believe, so not many are left. SEMPER FI! (I'm gonna burn in h*ll for this; a former Marine defending the Army against the Navy?)
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RPL    RE:Major pure Commando force?   6/12/2003 2:07:27 PM
Shaka: From what I understand, the commitment to Force Recon is actually expanding, not contracting. I'm pretty sure I've read on Strategypage and on some military web sites that two more recon companies are being re-constituted. Also, there was some noise being made about a Marine commitment to SOCOM, although that's still up in the air.
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oregon_x_marine    RE:Major pure Commando force?   7/16/2003 4:41:02 PM
Question: Why do the Marines want to create a commando force that will be assigned to SOCOM? If this commando force is not going to directly benefit a MCAGTF, then why waste resources on it?
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Sam    RE:Major pure Commando force?   7/16/2003 10:13:17 PM
Money SOCOM already has some control over MEUs(SOC) might as well get some of the money.
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Shaka of Carthage    RE:Major pure Commando force?   7/17/2003 4:45:34 PM
Money, as Sam pointed out is one issue. The second, and maybe the most important one, is politics. SOCOM has become an independent service. At the higher level commands, there no longer exists operational commands for the Army, Navy. etc. The Joint Commands have taken that place. SOCOM is one of those Joint Commands. There has been some talk about SOCOM having operational control when the war becomes "unconventional". In other words, instead of CENTCOM having control of the troops in Iraq, turn them over to SOCOM. The other thing, is that the Marines have lost 500 to 600 Marines to SOCOM over the last 17 years. They are in Delta and SEAL units now. By having a Force Recon force in SOCOM, the seepage and loss of Marines into SOCOM would stop. Civilian recruiting directly into the Green Berets is also a problem, but this won't be an issue for another 10+ years. Thats about when someone will get the bright idea to merge the Rangers/SEALs/Force Recon into "commandos", along with why the Green Berets and the commandos can't be one and the same. Thats another topic. All of the above are causing major problems for the various Service heads. As the Navy learned along time ago, you won't be part of the discussion, unless you bring something to it. The early discussions (years ago) about SOCOM being the Corp, have went nowhere, and actual field use hasn't proven the requirement. Hence, you have Marines going into SOCOM as commandos.
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Sam    RE:Major pure Commando force?   7/17/2003 6:51:17 PM
Shaka, The biggest recruiter of recon/force recon in the last few years has been the Air Force. Signing them up for the PJ program. It got so bad the MCB Camp Lejeune, CG banned them from base. The quality of life issues were killing us when compared to the AF. and your right about SOCOM. They have their own budget, separate from DOD
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Shaka of Carthage    RE:Major pure Commando force?   7/18/2003 12:37:18 AM
Really? I haven't heard about the PJ recruiting. I'd gather they'd go after the Corpsmen first. You're right about the quality of life issues. Thats a good way of putting it. SOCOM budget yep. But whats more important, is that as a operational Joint command, they still retain the opertational control over the forces they have. Thats something all of the other services have lost.
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oregon_x_marine    RE: Quality of life   7/18/2003 11:53:40 AM
I spent three months at Camp Lejeune/Camp Johnston in 1981 and thought it was one of the ugliest places I had ever seen. Jacksonville looked like "white trash" culture writ large. Has it changed much in the past 20 years?
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Crusader    RE: Quality of life   7/18/2003 12:00:29 PM
>>Has it changed much in the past 20 years?<< Nope.
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oregon_x_marine    RE: Quality of life   7/18/2003 11:25:34 PM
I once read that Jacksonville, FL was the "other" Jacksonville being considered for the site of the Marines major East Coast base. What a shame. Can you imagine Jacksonville, FL, Southern California and Hawaii being your services major installations!! Do people hate being stationed in Lejeune?
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raymond    RE: Force Recon and USSOCOM   11/5/2003 6:19:10 PM
The Marines would do well to look at what happened to the SEALs when SOCOM came online. SEALs were spawned from UDT and eventually absorbed them. This was okay, because the navy still had use of them for beach-and-shore recon, underwater demo, and maritime sabotage, the missions tat are actually important to the fleet. Now SEALs belong to SOCOM, and the fleet has to beg for their time, and finds that they are not much interested in doing maritime missions anymore. Did anyone else notice te irony of a SEAL getting killed in Afganistan? Now the navy as re-recognized the need for combat swimmers, and has had to spend a tanker of money to re-create UDT functions in the EOD teams. If the Corps commits Force Recon to SOCOM, they will find themselves doing the same thing in 10 years.
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