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Subject: LESS W/ LESS
CHRISTSFAM26@AOL.COM    5/23/2002 2:32:06 PM
WHY WE EVEN ENTERTAIN SUCH THOUGHTS . IT IS TIME FOR US TO CONSIDER ASKING FOR MORE.
 
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Pete S    RE:LESS W/ LESS   5/23/2002 4:44:44 PM
The Marines are famous for cost-effectiveness. That's one reason the Corps is so well regarded. Despite the reputation for frugality, the Marines have been one of the most innovative services, as evidenced by amphibious warfare, vertical envelopment with helicopters (combat missions in Korea), close air support, vertical lift, use of ACVs for combat, and now the Osprey. The point is that the Corps tries to never lose sight of the fact that it is a COMBAT force, not a social experiment. That fact is what draws young men into the Marines, not how nice and comfortable it is. And yes, for those who pay the price of admission there needs to be a decent standard of living for them and their dependents. Question: why is the Marines fooling around with non-lethal research? That money would be better used for training, replacing worn-out equipment or even renovating run-down quarters. Non-lethal research is better left to police or even the Army. Semper Fi!
 
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nakito    RE:LESS W/ LESS   5/25/2002 1:14:47 PM
my only guess would be because A) the government is probably quite willing to give support this, (non lethal means we don't want to kill people right? and the press likes that) B) because they have to deal with urban situations very often, especially now, and if faced with human shields or civilians in the areas, killing everything probably wouldn't go over too well.
 
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Pete S    Non-lethal Weapons   5/25/2002 6:16:13 PM
Nakito, your second point is an excellent one; thanks for bringing it up. In Korea and Vietnam, the communists were notorious for using innocents as shields to try to close with US forces, and to create "atrocities". That is a nightmarish choice to be forced to take. To amend my thought: I hope that the efforts to spare innocent lives doesn't dilute the ability or the will to kill the enemy who tries to hide behind them.
 
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Jeff from Michigan    RE:Non-lethal Weapons   5/26/2002 9:28:09 PM
The reason that the Marines remain innovative in my mind is that they always had to be the poor sisters in funding so they concentrated on what was truely important. The warrior himself. There is no such thing as a dangerous weapon only dangerous men. The Marines have kept this in mind. What has also helped them is that they have been kept small. When the Marines expanded during WWII and Vietnam they had many FUBARS though not as many as the Army. Finally as mentioned a long time ago by me the Marines are a classic "Shock Army". Troops trained to expend themselves utterly to seize an objective even for just a momemt. That requires an Elan and Esprit de Corps to do that mission. The Army's mission is different. It is to hold ground which requires different tactics and gear. With that being said it pains me as a former Army man to say that the Army needs a major overhaul in it's timid leadership. It was the civvies in the Pentagon that inserted the special forces into Afghanistan. When your civilians are coming up with the innovative strategies that take into consideration your logistical capabilities there is something seriously amiss in your military leadership. Hackworth is an idiot in many regards when you read his posts but he nails it dead on that the zero defect leadership has really hurt the Army more than the other branches of the military.
 
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