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Subject: Do female snipers beat their male counterparts??
Herc the Merc    5/16/2005 7:21:45 PM
Per "The living Daylights".
 
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Old Grunt    RE:Do female snipers beat their male counterparts??   4/18/2006 12:41:22 PM
"Being sniper is a very serious thing, I mean...the guys you kill basically come back and haunt you. The images of killing another human that up close and personal is basically a legal and necessary calculated murder." That's one of the reasons we screen the sniper candidates, to eliminate those who are unable to seperate who they are from what they do. I havn't encountered any current or former snipers who carry any remorse except for a few whose self-identified, high-speed, hush-hush, special assignments are, shall we say, "suspect".
 
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Carl S    RE:Do female snipers beat their male counterparts??   4/18/2006 1:21:23 PM
"Has any of you ever met a female sniper?" A card carrying US military sniper? No. There are a few now on law enforcement SWAT type units in the US.Still rare & not much history. My wife was a police officer & detective on a Kansas City suburban Dept. Not a sniper, the shotgun is her perfered weapon. For 21st Century female trigger pullers, who are not part of some insurrgency. I'd recomend digging into the anti terrorist units such as the US Delta Force & its equivalents in other nations. Of course that wont be easy, Thos folks like to keep their secrets but I guarantee you will be suprised by what you find there. When you get into the world of criminal indictments and trial its not difficult at all to find women who are ruthless killers. Some were clearly psycopaths. Others reasona balanced and quite logical in what they did.
 
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SteelGear    RE:Biology & Husband & Wife teams - cross training   4/19/2006 2:03:37 AM
--I've personally see a woman who can't have weighed more than 120 pounds reliably putting steel on target with an M107 with no real problems after some basic explanation of shooting with optics. Recoil on the .50 cal rifles is well managed by the muzzle breaks and you get more of a firm push than a sharp kick. What is a problem is the concussing effect of having your head in close proximity to a .50 cal round when it goes off with only a bit of steel to eat the blast for you, but that's something that is equally problematic for men and women.-- I won't disagree with you there.....but what about carrying the weapon?? As I mentioned before these 0.50 cal. Rifles are not feather wieghts and neither is the ammo. I never once said a woman can't do the job of a sniper. I am saying such women who can handle the role effectively, will be a very rare.
 
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GOP    RE:Do female snipers beat their male counterparts??   4/19/2006 11:10:35 AM
>>That's one of the reasons we screen the sniper candidates, to eliminate those who are unable to seperate who they are from what they do. I havn't encountered any current or former snipers who carry any remorse except for a few whose self-identified, high-speed, hush-hush, special assignments are, shall we say, "suspect".<< Screening them can only get you so far. In Jack Coughlin's book Shooter, he talks about how some of his 'kills' come back in his dreams and haunts him. This is coming from the top USMC sniper with the most 'kills' to his name...I would guess he was probably screened (not sure how the USMC does that). As far as the "Special assignments", I agree that they have it much worse. I read the book A Snipers story (I forget the Author), and the guy went into the military to be a mechanic, ended up in Vietnam in a infantry unit, then went to a CIA run sniper school (he thought it was a regular army school meant to simply improve your accuracy), and ended up doing some very "Suspect" things for the CIA (killing a woman, killing monks, etc). The guy is now very messed because of it. There is no way I would do any of these kind of assignments...I mean, I realize that killing is part of the job, but I still have morals.
 
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Old Grunt    RE:Do female snipers beat their male counterparts??   4/20/2006 12:46:14 PM
Well in my experience no qualified sniper, or operator for that matter, whom I have met or worked with experiences "hauntings" or "floating faces" or any sort of remorse for doing the job they chose to do. As for women, children, monks, or monkeys, a target is a target. If you can't seperate emotion from the mission then you have no business behind the scope. As for all the "Hush-Hush-Super-Triple-Tip-Top-Secret-Can't-Even-Tell-Myself" missions that make for great books and movies, they don't exist. I can almost hear the Black Helicopters hovering!!
 
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longrifle    RE:Do female snipers beat their male counterparts??   4/20/2006 1:04:19 PM
Chuck Mawhinney is credited with 103 confirmed kills, and 216 probables, while serving with the 5th Marine Regiment Scout/Sniper platoon in Vietnam. Mawhinney is on record saying that he experienced nightmares for a period of time after he first returned stateside. He's led a well adjusted life and had a good career with the Forest Service though. The "haunting" images don't seem to have lasted very long. He's also on record as saying that he doesn't think much about Vietnam and the memories that he does have are mostly positive, unit camaraderie etc.
 
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GOP    RE:Do female snipers beat their male counterparts??   4/20/2006 7:03:45 PM
>>Well in my experience no qualified sniper, or operator for that matter, whom I have met or worked with experiences "hauntings" or "floating faces" or any sort of remorse for doing the job they chose to do.<< I disagree, well, in theory anyway. I have never met a sniper, so you definitely have more experience than I do in this area (obviously)....but I think that some events will trigger certain emotional feelings, no matter how 'well trained and qualified' someone is. Snipers aren't supermen, they feel pain and experience emotion just like all of us. >>As for women, children, monks, or monkeys, a target is a target. If you can't seperate emotion from the mission then you have no business behind the scope.<< I kind of have mixed feelings about this. I want to be an Operator, but I don't want to kill a woman or child ever. It goes against everything I have been taught about life (obviously) and war...I mean, a guy is fair-game...he is like me except fighting for the wrong side/cause...it is more clinical. A woman/child brings in a whole different aspect of warfare. Of course, I haven't been trained in warfare and I am sure that these feelings might go away with training. >>As for all the "Hush-Hush-Super-Triple-Tip-Top-Secret-Can't-Even-Tell-Myself" missions that make for great books and movies, they don't exist. I can almost hear the Black Helicopters hovering!!<< I agree. You know much better than I do that we have SOCOM (particularly JSOC) units in places that we won't know about doing things that we won't hear about, but as far as super secret stuff (like Hollywood likes to use in movies) don't exist.
 
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Horsesoldier    RE:Biology & Husband & Wife teams - cross training   4/21/2006 8:14:31 PM
>>I won't disagree with you there.....but what about carrying the weapon?? As I mentioned before these 0.50 cal. Rifles are not feather wieghts and neither is the ammo.<< From my same post you quoted from: As for carrying the Barrett, it's designed to split into two seperate loads, and I don't see any woman who can pass basic military training requirements in regards to ruck marching having a problem carrying half a rifle and some ammunition . . . but as has already been noted, stalking with .50 cal rifles is not a part of any sniping training syllabus I'm familiary with.
 
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PowerPointRanger    Prove it   4/30/2006 12:29:31 AM
For the record, I was not advocating "husband & wife" teams, only throwing it out for discussion. My personal attitude is: if you want to be a sniper, be a sniper. By this, I mean show me that you can do everything required for the job. If a woman can do everything required, then I have no problem with her doing the job.
 
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SteelGear    RE:Prove it   4/30/2006 9:35:46 PM
--By this, I mean show me that you can do everything required for the job. If a woman can do everything required, then I have no problem with her doing the job. -- Although I am arguing that there will be very rare instances where some women will make good snipers I am not against giving them a shot at trying. Put em through Infantry training....if they survive that then send 'em up to a marksmanship/sniper training school (if their shooting is good enough to pass). HAHAHA I can see the "politically correctness is the end all be all" types having a go at the word "Marksmanship"
 
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