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Subject: Do female snipers beat their male counterparts??
Herc the Merc    5/16/2005 7:21:45 PM
Per "The living Daylights".
 
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Carl S    RE:Women in Combat, A Broad View   4/14/2006 12:17:43 PM
Encyclopedia of Amazons. by Jessica Salmonson. 1991. Paragon House An ecyclopediac review of women warriors and soldiers. Brief entries covering from ancient legends & myths through modern documented history. Usefull as a quick refrence and a starter text on the subject. One amusing entry has quotes from a 12th Century Catholic Abbot. He complains about a group of nuns who are collecting weapons and training to use them. He requests the Bishop provide some warriors to take control of the convent for him, or to send him the funds for this purpose. Reading into the missive I'm guessing the real problem is the nuns are refusing to send him their assesment of goods, and handled his represenatives rather roughly.
 
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SteelGear    RE:Biology & Husband & Wife teams - cross training   4/16/2006 3:15:01 AM
--Male: Better depth perception, bigger & stronger (allowing better use of the large-caliber weapons that work best for long-range sniping). Female: genetic visual deficiencies (night/color blindness) are less common in women (giving a broader pool of recruits); Finer motor control, more detail-oriented observational skills.-- Its all very well to say that but what if the woman and the man had to swap roles in your hypothetical male female sniper team. The man would be capable of spotting but can the woman handle dragging an M82a1 of an M97 and firing it?? Its a bit of stuff ask for a woman considering that both these weapons are no 'feather wieghts' and kick like bloody mules. To the best of my knowledge all soldiers within a particular unit are cross trained in the roles of immediate co-workers in case one of them is unable to do his/her job because he/she became a casuality (i.e. all soldiers within an infantry fire team are trained in all the weapons of the fire team regardless of whether they are a Team Leader, automatic rifleman, grenadier or a rifleman). So with cross training in mind would the woman be able to handle carrying, deploying and firing a large caliber rifle? The answer would be yes but very few would have the strength to be capable. If women are going to be spotters they would need to able to take over the sniping job as well as dragging her heavier partner in case he gets shot.
 
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Carl S    RE:Biology & Husband & Wife teams - cross training   4/16/2006 8:53:32 AM
I once commanded a USMC sniper platoon. It never occured to us that the teams should be matched according to the ability of one member to drag or carry another. Ability to work as a team was the only criteria. There were quite a few women in other platoons in the HQ company. At that time (1993-95) the physical standards for the women were fairly strict. Those who could not keep up did not last long. But then neither did the guys. The rifles we equipped the sniper with were Remington model 700 equivalents. My shorter than average girlfriend could handle it with no problem. As for the heavier Barret type .5 cal. weapons, most guys could not really handle those either. Tho they would never admit it. In my unit we never contemplated dragging a Barrett on a stealty stalk. I suspose there are folks who can do that. But with a 1000+ meter range it was unecessary for us.
 
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Horsesoldier    RE:Biology & Husband & Wife teams - cross training   4/16/2006 12:51:58 PM
>>Its all very well to say that but what if the woman and the man had to swap roles in your hypothetical male female sniper team.<< It actually breaks down before you get to that point, anyway. The gender differences cited are averages, meaning there is no reason to think the woman would not be superior to the man or vice versa in the issues of visual acuity and such mentioned. A sniper team, as noted, needs to be composed of two (at least) individuals who can perform both the shooter and spotter jobs for any number of reasons. >>The man would be capable of spotting but can the woman handle dragging an M82a1 of an M97 and firing it?? Its a bit of stuff ask for a woman considering that both these weapons are no 'feather wieghts' and kick like bloody mules.<< I've personally see a woman who can't have weighed more than 120 pounds reliably putting steel on target with an M107 with no real problems after some basic explanation of shooting with optics. Recoil on the .50 cal rifles is well managed by the muzzle breaks and you get more of a firm push than a sharp kick. What is a problem is the concussing effect of having your head in close proximity to a .50 cal round when it goes off with only a bit of steel to eat the blast for you, but that's something that is equally problematic for men and women. As for carrying the Barrett, it's designed to split into two seperate loads, and I don't see any woman who can pass basic military training requirements in regards to ruck marching having a problem carrying half a rifle and some ammunition . . . but as has already been noted, stalking with .50 cal rifles is not a part of any sniping training syllabus I'm familiary with.
 
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Horsesoldier    .50 cal rifles -- Carl S   4/16/2006 1:00:36 PM
An off topic question that maybe you can help me with -- was there ever official guidance or unofficial military urban myth in the USMC sniping community that shooting Raufoss ammunition through a Barett would shoot out the barrel or otherwise seriously damage within 50-60 rounds?
 
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Carl S    RE:.50 cal rifles -- Carl S   4/16/2006 7:03:57 PM
I never heard that one. We did not actually get to shoot the Barretts much. In 1993-1995 they were not even our armory. I cant recall anything about how they were distributed. I can say the rifles were treated like babys. After a few hundred training rounds they were sent to Quantico and rebuilt in a machine shop designed exclusively for this purpose. looking at the record for our rifle it was evident that many had been through the service cycle three or four times in less than fifteen years. It is not impossible that the definition of "seriously damage" to the barrel covered wear the average deer hunter would not even recognize.
 
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SteelGear    RE:.50 cal rifles -- correction   4/17/2006 11:48:30 PM
In my last post I mentioned the "M97"... I meant the M95. My mistake ^_^
 
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GOP    RE:Do female snipers beat their male counterparts??   4/18/2006 12:39:50 AM
If you can answer me this, then I will take this thread seriously: Has any of you ever met a female sniper?
 
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GOP    RE:Do female snipers beat their male counterparts??   4/18/2006 12:45:33 AM
The reason I ask is this...I have never met a girl (or at least, a pretty girl) who would ever want to be in combat, much less take a few headshots at them. Being sniper is a very serious thing, I mean...the guys you kill basically come back and haunt you. The images of killing another human that up close and personal is basically a legal and necessary calculated murder. I would definitely hate for any woman to experience that at all. Women need to be focused on doing what they do best: looking hot, being witty/smart/funny/generous/kind/sexy, whining, doing house work, cooking rasing kids, etc...:), not killing other humans.
 
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Horsesoldier    RE:.50 cal rifles -- Carl S   4/18/2006 11:27:58 AM
Thanks for the information. I work from time to time with guys who were scout/snipers previously in their military careers before switching over to the army and going SF, and I've only met one guy with that background who was convinced the Raufoss round was way too hot for the Barrett. Our polite conclusion where I work was that he may have heard (or heard and misunderstood) something back in the day when the .50 cal rifles were new kit. The less polite alternative conclusion was rather less flattering to the individual in question, but may be the more likely explanation . . .
 
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