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Subject: are electrified 5.56 rounds the future for US/western soldiers
scuttlebut steve    2/12/2007 9:50:54 PM
two companies are working together to make electrified versions of existing bullets along with electrified non-lethal rounds. "shockrounds" as they are called, are based on fairly old tech (low development risk) and can be made in all current cartrige sizes. these bullets would cost slightly more than other premium ammo, have the same ballistic performance and penetration as existing rounds but deliver 50,000 volts ( 175 joule useable )to the target for instant stunning/incapacitation. I think it would be a godsend to the army because they get all of the advantages that 5.56 rounds give plus unparalleled stopping power...even getting shot in the hand or foot can stun an attacker for as long as a stungun usually would. also, this allows the US military to continue using the rifles that they already have (and most potential M4/M16 replacement projects are 5.56)
 
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scuttlebut steve    link   2/12/2007 9:52:23 PM
link is                       ;>
 
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YelliChink       2/13/2007 10:07:53 AM
From previous discussion
 
"Yeah, maybe we should invent a round that can taser people when hit, thus incapacitate them immediately no matter where the hit spot is. "
 
I didn't know that there ARE people making taser bullets.....
 
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Jeff_F_F       2/13/2007 12:03:11 PM
Definitely a step in the right direction regardless of the ammunition type. The simple fact is that barring a shot to the brain (simply a "head shot" is not enough, many head shots fail to strike the brain or spinal cord) trauma only acts only indirectly to instantly incapacitate a target. Otherwise, it is up to bleeding or the destruction of the heart starving the brain of oxygen. Even if the heart is destroyed this process can take up to 15 seconds. This process is commonly seen in animals killed by hunters. Rarely does the animal just drop, usually it will run, even if mortally wounded. Shooting victims often do go down when shot even if the wound isn't immediately lethal, but the physiological, neurological, and psychological processes that cause this are complex and little understood. Anything that aids this process is definitely a plus.
 
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Zerbrechen       2/13/2007 3:27:26 PM
   Admittedly, I've not read the entire article, but I gotta wonder about a couple of things.
 
   1) How long can on of these bullets really put a charge into the target?
 
   2) How durable are the rounds?  A solid lead core 5.56 breaks up.  What are these "chipped" bullets going to do and how reliable are they going to be?  If this bullet proves to be frangible, what about rules of war?
 
   3) What is the cost of each one of these bullets?  Are they going to be reserved for urban environments (closer ranges)  for greater hit probability?  What General is going to want a potential 50,000 rounds per kill with super expensive rounds?  (As a side note I have no idea what the rounds per kill ratio is currently)
 
   4) Tasers shoot two darts into the subject, arcing a current between the two probes.  The greater the arcing distance, the better the effect on the subject (personal experience here).  I am having trouble believing that a single bullet will do any more that zap with pain compliance (think stun gun).  I would think being shot would be pain compliance enough without a little jolt. 
 
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scuttlebut steve    what it does   2/13/2007 7:28:09 PM
the charge is developed because the bullet is spinning very fast when it leaves the rifle.. very small ceramic crystals in the bullet core builds up the charge. the charge building process is called "piezoelectric effect". This isnt cutting edge tech, its just something that wasnt thought of till recently.  these bullets should be reliable because the inserted part isnt that complex, and the bullet should act like a normal steel jacketed round when hit.
 
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YelliChink       2/13/2007 8:18:16 PM
The tip of the bullet is made of piezo electric ceramic material which, upon impact, or sudden acceleration, will produce high voltage/low current.
 
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Yimmy       2/13/2007 11:41:14 PM
It's been a while since I studied physics, but where it comes to toasting people, isn't it the amps that matter, as opposed to the voltage?
 
 
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Herald1234       2/13/2007 11:50:11 PM

It's been a while since I studied physics, but where it comes to toasting people, isn't it the amps that matter, as opposed to the voltage?

 

Yes, but even a mild low amperage jolt administered inside the skin[which is a good ground state insulator] can do enormous organism damage by screwing up local autonomous nervous function at the impact site.

Every little bit helps. Epileptic shock as well as bleed out is a nasty combination.

Herald

 
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Zerbrechen    Amps   2/14/2007 12:14:43 AM

It's been a while since I studied physics, but where it comes to toasting people, isn't it the amps that matter, as opposed to the voltage?

 



   I'll have to fish my Taser book out. But I believe Tasers work in the .01 amp range (give or take a decimal place). 
 
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Yimmy       2/14/2007 12:31:24 AM




It's been a while since I studied physics, but where it comes to toasting people, isn't it the amps that matter, as opposed to the voltage?



 





   I'll have to fish my Taser book out. But I believe Tasers work in the .01 amp range (give or take a decimal place). 


But then, don't tasers give a 5-6 second burst of electricity, while a bullet passing through will give a shock only a fraction of a second in duration.
 
 
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