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Subject: NK arty. bombarding Seoul
Nate    3/6/2003 1:58:15 PM
1, How much artillery can NK lay on metropolitan Seoul from the NK arty. supposedly dug in just north of the DMZ?
2. How long would we (ROK and USA) need to take out that arty.?
3. If we can only take it out with tactical nuclear stuff, will the radioactive fallout harm metro. Seoul and citizens to the north?
4. Is there any other rapid way to stop salvos from arty. in deep rock caves from bombarding Seoul?
 
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Final Historian    RE:NK arty. bombarding Seoul   3/6/2003 2:07:21 PM
1. Thousands of arty can lay it on Seol should the North Koreans attack. The initial bombardment would be the worst, as there could literaly be no warning for the populace. In the first 5 minutes 10,000 dead aren't out of line. If WMD is used, 100,000 South Koreans could be dead in less than 30 minutes. A couple of hours of covential shells could also kill that many(thanks to the injuries already inflicted killing people who can't receive medical attention). 2. It would take us a long time to eliminate all those pieces with conventional weapons. Days, if not weeks would be needed, and tons of planes at that. 3. If we used neutron bombs on the North Koreans we could eliminate at least 90-95% of all of the arty, with minimal radiation damage to the South. 4. If we had the ability to call in kinetic interdiction strikes, yes, otherwise no. Nukes are the only thing that could eliminate the North Korean arty in a timely manner.
 
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norden    RE:NK arty. bombarding Seoul   3/6/2003 2:10:08 PM
If the artillery is fixed its history. they will find it precisely with sustained fire in no time flat.Nukes are not an option in any way. A low yeild earth penetrator or tactical nuke would not be needed for artillery, IMHO
 
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norden    RE:NK arty. bombarding Seoul/ Historian   3/6/2003 2:13:50 PM
Do you think we would use nukes? Are their really that many pieces aimed at the south? I really respect your opinion and that's pretty grim
 
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Nate    RE:NK arty. bombarding Seoul   3/7/2003 12:47:16 PM
Norden, see the post from Final Historian. Final Historian, does "kinetic interdiction" mean neutron weapon? If so, do we have any that can be used without testing? I do not recall that we ever tested any of them. If we do not have any, we are in a real mess: The NKPR can threaten to annihilate Seoul if the United States does not prop us the NKPR economically. The ROK has no defense to such annihilation. If, as Col. Hodge wrote in a recent Parameters (Army War College publication), the NKPR's main objective is to conquer the ROK, the prize of the ROK would be worthwhile to the NKPR even if metropolitan Seoul and 10 to 20 million ROK citizens were killed. We will know when the NKPR is going to attack by the sudden exodus from Seoul of all the leftist students who demonstrate against the U.S. military presence.
 
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FourF    RE:NK arty. bombarding Seoul   3/7/2003 1:36:36 PM
The ROK is quite capable of defending itself. (note: I never comment on actual mil. tactics since I never spent a day in the service myself, 4F y'know) It's afraid of taking that initial hit, so they have been crouching behind our stacks of money bags for too long. It's more or less been their policy for many years to demand that the US buy off the looney-toons up north so they can sit back and enjoy their relative prosperity. Everyone thinks if the north attacks, it would be our fault because we would not pay their extortion. This morning, Rumsfeld made a comment that he would like to pull the US back from the DMZ and hold a rearguard position. By doing that, he is telling the ROK that resolving issues with the north is their responsibility and if they can't come to terms, i.e. face them down or buy them off, either way it's their choice, then they have to consider the consequences. 4F
 
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SGTObvious    Nk Arty   3/7/2003 2:00:41 PM
The DMZ is 40-50 km north of Seoul. Long range. North Korea has artillery in great hordes, in concrete gun emplacements. Much of it is older USSR/PRC stuff. They have plenty of weapons of the FROG/SCUD type, though, that can reach Seoul, and it doesn't matter where they hit, because the city is so crowded.
 
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Final Historian    RE:NK arty. bombarding Seoul-norden   3/7/2003 3:46:14 PM
Last I heard, the NK forces had at least 10 thousand artillery pieces. The numbers were twice as many as the South and US combined. And a good number of those arty pieces are aimed at Seoul. Several thousand arty shells hitting a city of millions every 20 seconds or so could kill lots of people. Especially if done during 'rush hour'. The real problem is the number and the fact that most of those pieces are dug into mountain sides and rock faces. This gives them a lot of cover, and makes it difficult to go after them. We can't just call in MLRS fire on them when they are dug in like that. Digging in is something that NK is good at, in fact they might be the best in the world when it comes to hiding things underground.
 
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American Kafir    RE:NK arty. bombarding Seoul   3/7/2003 4:23:59 PM
Nate - Yes we have neutron weapons. Several hundred in fact.
 
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Final Historian    RE:NK arty. bombarding Seoul-Nate   3/7/2003 4:38:14 PM
Sorry about not responding to a couple of points. First off neutron bombs are special nukes that have a small blast but release a lot of short lived radiation. Its an anti-personel weapon. They would probably be the only weapon capable of stopping a Northern attack in its tracks without irradiating the whole region. Second, kinetic interdiction strikes is something that was discussed way back in the 80's I think. The idea was to put a satellite in orbit with a bunch of long rods which could be dropped from orbit onto a target. Give them GPS for guidance and you essentially have your own meteor strikes at call. Since kinetic energy= mass times the square of velocity, something going very fast could easily match a nuke in destructive power if fast enough, without the problem of radiation.
 
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Nate    RE:NK arty. bombarding Seoul   3/7/2003 5:56:58 PM
Thanks to all responders for informative answers. In 1953 I was stationed in what is now Korea Univ.; it was just outside of NorthGate. In May and June we had outdoor movies; when the movie was poor, you could watch what looked like continuous heat lightning to the north. If the fighting was heavy, the helicopters carrying wounded to the 121st Evacuation Hospital passed directly overhead the next morning. Then we were out of range. Now however, the old Fifth Communications Group compound could be leveled by artillery fire. I trust this explains my interest.
 
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Final Historian    RE:NK arty. bombarding Seoul   3/7/2003 10:42:28 PM
Yes it does. The biggest problem for South Korea is that their biggest city and major center of pretty much everything is in Seoul. So the prospect of a bombardment of their capital is something that would definately put them on edge.
 
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Ddalgi74    RE:NK arty. bombarding Seoul   2/6/2004 11:53:02 AM
President Rho Mu-Yeon has talked about moving the capital of the coutry to Daejon, but that seems unlikely, as it would be a major move. Also, Seoul IS the center for everything in SK so the move to Daejon might put the government headquarters away from where all the major issues are. Near 35% of South Koreans live in or around Seoul...
 
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DragonReborn    RE:NK arty. bombarding Seoul - THEL?   2/16/2004 2:00:10 PM
Is there any conceivable defence against arty except premptive strike? I know that the the US and the Israelis have designed a laser designed to intercept missiles, mortar and arty shells. Still in testing. link Could a covert chain of these THEL stations along the 38th parallel be a way of neutralising the N. Korean Arty threat to Seoul? What does everyone think of THEL? Shooting down the odd missle or shell in tests is different to shooting down thosands of shells a minute. Are there any other tactics people would suggest for protecting Seoul?
 
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Phd Digital    RE:NK arty. bombarding Seoul - THEL?   2/16/2004 3:14:39 PM
Do you know the reasons for North Korea getting nuclear weapons. I know why they got it, because they watched how the U.S. treated Iraq after they destroyed their WMD. Then they think like this. If we get rid of our weapons and let inspections go on it will only invite a U.S. invasion, but if we get WMD they will leave us alone. So if the cause was to decrease the number WMD in other countries than the U.S. The opposite has been the case. More countries get WMD to defend against U.S. aggression. You have to get the facts before trying to solve a problem. It is important to remeber that the conflict is between the leaders and not the people. Do not blame the North Korean people for their President. Aswell as anyone else hopes that George W Bush will not be elected for another term, since he sends out strange signals to the rest of the world.
 
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HanKim    reply to Phd digital: why NK tries to get nukes   2/16/2004 11:30:25 PM
Phd Digital said: "Do you know the reasons for North Korea getting nuclear weapons. I know why they got it, because they watched how the U.S. treated Iraq after they destroyed their WMD... " With all due respect, the North Korean nuclear program predates the GWBush's presidency by a decade plus. Throughout the 1970's until the 1990's North Korea held the edge in terms of military strength over the South. They were certain they could defeat the South Koreans and the US forces stationed in Korea but were uncertain if large numbers of US reinforcements were deployed to Korea. In the 1980's the North began building forces specifically designed to delay US reinforcements. The long range missiles and the WMDs were integral to the effort. The target of their nukes was not the Korean peninsula - any map will show that nuking any place South of the DMZ is like setting off a hand grenade in a knife fight in an elevator. The target were the US bases in the Pacific where supplies were prepositioned such as Okinawa and Guam. The events since the shutdown of the Soviet Union have made such plans quite unfeasible - NK war plans were based upon the Soviets and Chinese competitivly supplying them with petrol and supplies. The famine has taken its toll as well. Since then, the nuke program has been a tool of extortion and brinkmanship.
 
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