Have some questions from Hindi media people

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musloko-maro RE:Have some questions from Hindi media people 11/24/2005 9:17:10 AM

Further to the previous thread: link Population has nothing to do with religion? Thursday November 24 2005 00:00 IST S Gurumurthy "Population is a development issue, an issue between a husband and wife. It has nothing to do with religion," says a politburo member of CPM. This is in response to RSS chief KS Sudharshan?s advice to Hindus against the two-child norm. Sudharshan?s opinion that one may reject is not the issue; but the hard facts which must have disturbed Sudharshan to talk perhaps unlike him are not in issue at all. Sudharshan was releasing a book on Religious Demography, a meticulous research work by a Chennai-based socio-economic research body, the Centre for Policy Studies (CPS). The CPS came out with the first study of religious demography in India in 2003 and revised it in 2005. The study disclosed that the share of Indian religions - Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism - in the population of the Indian sub-continent has come down from 79.32 percent in 1881 to 67.56 percent in 2001. A decline of 11.76 percent in 120 years; in the last decade alone 1.16 percent! Such a steep 12 percent decline of a faith in a century is extraordinary, says the CPS study. It is the decline of Indian religions, disproportionately in some areas, that invited the partition of India in 1947. The partition of 1947 was, undeniably, based on religious demography. That explains why Muslim majority areas became part of Pakistan and Indian religions? areas were included in India. See what happens, after partition, in Pakistan in the West and in the East, later Bangladesh. In the census of 1941, Indian religions in West Pakistan were 19.69 percent. Their numbers today? Hold your breath, just 1.84 percent -- it means 9 out of 10 Indian religions have disappeared from West Pakistan! Look at the East - Bangladesh - which was born courtesy the Indian Army. In 1941, Indian religions were 33.93 percent, more than a third of Bangladesh. Their numbers today? Again, hold your breath, just 10.03 percent -- meaning that more than 2 out of 3 Indian religions have disappeared from Bangladesh. Reduction in Indian religions causes partition first, and next partition exterminates the Indian religions - a perfect sequence. Look at Kashmir and Mizoram for the faith cleansing capabilities of religious intolerance, despite the secular Constitution in force. Between 1981 and 2001, Indian religions in Kashmir valley went down from 5.03 percent to 2.77 percent, that is, almost half of them have disappeared from the valley. Again in Mizoram in which other religions, not the Indian religions, are in majority, the 50,000-strong Reang tribe has been driven out of the state as refugees elsewhere. When Indian religions were being cleansed out in Pakistan and Bangladesh, as a contrast, in India, Indian religions, not others, are down from 87.22 percent in 1951 to 84.22 percent in 2001 - a decline of 3 percent in 50 years. Others religions are up from 12.78 percent to 15.78 percent at the same time! Their growth is consistent with India?s ancient traditions which, perhaps wrongly in hindsight, never looked at the religious profile of any one. Thus whether it were the Parsis, or the Jews or the early Christians or Shia Muslims who driven out of their places by religious intolerance, they were protected by Indian religions when there was no secular Constitution! This is the measure of the difference between ?doctrinally tolerant? religions like the Indian religions and ?doctrinally intolerant? religions, as the Encyclopaedia Britannica would classify them. So, the concern is not that the other religions are rising in numbers faster. The concern is that history seems to warn that a Pakistan or a Bangladesh might be repeated, particularly in the border districts of Bihar, Bengal and Assam where other religions are disproportionately rising. The concern is that what happened in Pakistan or Bangladesh to Indian religions after partition may repeat in those areas. Would that not lead to further Kashmirs, or more Mizorams is the question. This concern should not be that of only the Indian religions. It should be of others too. They too will be concerned if responsible leadership explains the issue to them. These concerns are real. Since secular India sweeps under the carpet all hard facts, the realities of ?doctrinally intolerant? religions, others are forced to talk. Facts cannot be ignored, as ignoring them in the past has cost the nation before the very eyes of the present generation. Sudharshan?s opinion may be criticised as an extreme reaction, but what about the facts disclosed by the CPS study which drove him to express an extreme view? Facts cannot be ignored and should not be. But, why then does secular India run away from these hard facts, from debating the issue?

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Genesis musloko-maro-ur fanatical writeups suck 11/26/2005 3:09:09 AM

musloko-maro, keep your hindi fanatical thoughts to yourself and dont ever say again that speaking in hindi is a sign of a civilized person...Limit your opinion to military or political strategy in this site..dont bring in your language fanatics and spoil the Indian-ness of this board.India is not all about Hindi. its this kind of arrogant behaviour by cracks like u that led to anti-hindi agitation and seperatism in the south of india. dont start it all over again. No language or culture can be forced on anybody. every individual born has a right to choose his way of living, his religion and his language. so shut your hindi-fanatic mouth from sowing seeds of hatred and let us live peacefully in our glorious country. G

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musloko-maro RE:musloko-maro-ur fanatical writeups suck 11/26/2005 10:04:16 AM

Aside from all your mental onanistic thoughts, let me ask you, is it beyond India's competence and leadership to have a language of it's own, Hindi, which is an offspring of an ancient mother Samskrit Did not Indonesia form a language out it's polyglotism of three dozen languages/dialects and evolve into Bahasa Indonesia which has more stronger roots with Javanese and a great grand child of our Samskrit? its this kind of arrogant behaviour by cracks like u that led to anti-hindi agitation and seperatism in the south of india. dont start it all over again. What separatism? Do you need a "memory jog"? Do you know what happened in the hustings to the Constituent Assembly on 1946? The Separatists(Justice Party in Madras Presidency comprising of Tamil Nadu, Andhra & Malabar districts) were dealt a death blow, by the Congress Party(as they did in 1937 hustings) and all the stalwarts of Southern separatism buried deeply. never to raies their ugly head! And where would the southies intend to go, with their "separation"? Did they have the testucular fortitude for that adventure? Or for that matter, did ever heed the "calls" for, or care for either Jinnah's or E.V.Ramaswamy Naicker's Dravidanad? "movement"? No language or culture can be forced on anybody. every individual born has a right to choose his way of living, his religion and his language. so shut your hindi-fanatic mouth from sowing seeds of hatred and let us live peacefully in our glorious country. And so, why the hell, the greater part of India be forced to shoulder the burden of an alien language, a language of imperialism that kept India and the spirit of India in thraldom? What did Macaulay's bastards try to achieve? Turn India into a nation of rote/regurgitate scientists/engineers....? Does Thailand use English as it's medium of instruction in engineering, science or it's courts and administration. If you had said, that Hindi would place the Hindi-wallahs in a position of advantage, over the southies, who would be disadvantaged in learning another language, and that the Northies would have to learn a language of the south, to place them in the equity of burden, that would have been different matter Further your "glorious country" will never be glorious with the albatross of an alien lingo hanging around it's infant neck. [BTW, I am not an Indian, and my mother tongue is not Hindi either!]

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Genesis RE:musloko-maro-ur fanatical writeups suck again 11/27/2005 1:28:05 AM

////////////What separatism/Do you know what happened in the hustings to the Constituent Assembly on 1946? The Separatists(Justice Party in Madras Presidency comprising of Tamil Nadu, Andhra & Malabar districts) were dealt a death blow, by the Congress Party(as they did in 1937 hustings) and all the stalwarts of Southern separatism buried deeply. never to raies their ugly head//////////// Better read Tamil history properly before you comment. link Burried deeply? After the 1960 anti hindi agitation, the congress party to this day is buried in deep sh!t and the Dravidian parties are the only ones ?allowed? to rule Tamil land. //////And where would the southies intend to go, with their "separation"? Did they have the testucular fortitude for that adventure? Or for that matter, did ever heed the "calls" for, or care for either Jinnah's or E.V.Ramaswamy Naicker's Dravidanad? "movement"? /////// First you must understand that the separation movement of south evolved merely from frustration and irritation by the arrogance of north Indian politicians rather than a real need and yearning to go separate from India. This movement is not basically against India but against the arrogance of some Indians living way up north. It was just a warning to the north. That is why, once the hindi imposition fever of the north subsided, the Dravidian parties came back to mainstream national politics and the Tamils are as patriotic to India as anybody else in the country today. If you were living in the north in those days, you would have no idea about the seriousness and magnitude of this agitation. Those were the days when media was weak and mostly controlled by the congress government. ////////And so, why the hell, the greater part of India be forced to shoulder the burden of an alien language, a language of imperialism that kept India and the spirit of India in thraldom?////////// What the hell?to me English is no different than hindi or urdhu?all of them came from outside India?Sanskrit brought by Aryans , urdhu by Muslims and hindi is just a child of them both?Why do you want to hurt the feelings of the south Indians who have a culture and language more than 5000 years old by imposing a language just few 100 years old? We can live and prosper as Indians peacefully by respecting each others culture and language rather than spoiling everything by trying to impose on each other . India is a diverse country.Diversity has been our strength. We are united in diversity. It is a unique balance that you cant find in any other part of the world.So its best not to disturb it with fanatical thoughts like yours. ////////////Does Thailand use English as it's medium of instruction in engineering, science or it's courts and administration.//////////////// What a stupid argument.If India was just Bihar, Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand, Madhya Pradesh, Uttaranchal, Uttar Pradesh, and some surrounding areas, then you don?t need English as medium of instruction.But you have more than a half billion people not speaking hindi now. //////////////Further your "glorious country" will never be glorious with the albatross of an alien lingo hanging around it's infant neck////////////// My glorious country will always be glorious. And its sure to climb further high in the near future.India and Indians are fast becoming the world power house of the service sector only because of the English language skill. Do you think India would have made it big with one billion people speaking and thinking like lallu pradad yadav and rabri devi? Get real man. ////[BTW, I am not an Indian, and my mother tongue is not Hindi either!]//// I hope you are not. jai hind!

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musloko-maro RE:musloko-maro-ur fanatical writeups suck again 11/27/2005 6:03:06 PM

musloko-maro-ur fanatical writeups suck again Truth hurts! Tamils have never displayed the guts, the balls like their neighbhor Telugus or are no match for Punjabis. Make a detailed study, and if you cannot find the answers, I will help you, in your search. Better read Tamil history properly before you comment. link Burried deeply? After the 1960 anti hindi agitation, the congress party to this day is buried in deep sh!t and the Dravidian parties are the only ones ?allowed? to rule Tamil land. And(Dravidians)have taken the people of T.N. to the days of Tholkapiam? When the rest of the South has made deep strides in the national mainstream, it is T.N. and it?s Dravidian parties & Dravidian politicians that have ruined the state of T.N., which was at # 2, on all India status, behind Maharashtra till Feb 1967, in Industry, administration, commerce, etc.[R. Venkataraman, Member Planning Commission in 1972] Question is have you read ?Tamil history? properly and in it?s correct prespective vis a vis the developments of last 500 years atleast. Pl. tell me, when were the Tamilians in control of Pandyanaad, Chozhanaad or Pallavanaad, the principal Tamil speaking reagions(mixed leberally with Telugu percentage) in the last 600 years. Tamil Nadu has a population of 39% Telugu ancestry. There are no pachchai Tamizhans even EVR(Kannadiga) Karunanidhi(Telugu barber) MGR(Malayalee) or fat Jaya(Karnataka Brahman) Tamil Nadu was ruled in large parts by non Tamils, be it the Raayas or Mahrattas or Wodeyars(Kannadigas) the Brits, and quite earlier the mughals/muslims First you must understand that the separation movement of south evolved merely from frustration and irritation by the arrogance of north Indian politicians rather than a real need and yearning to go separate from India. This movement is not basically against India but against the arrogance of some Indians living way up north. It was just a warning to the north. That is why, once the hindi imposition fever of the north subsided, the Dravidian parties came back to mainstream national politics and the Tamils are as patriotic to India as anybody else in the country today. If you were living in the north in those days, you would have no idea about the seriousness and magnitude of this agitation. Those were the days when media was weak and mostly controlled by the congress government. Please spare this escapist defeatist platitude of a B.S.......understand that the separation movement of south evolved merely from frustration and irritation by the arrogance of north Indian politicians rather than a real need and yearning to go separate from India. Really? What were the aspirations of E. V. Ramaswamy Naicker, Dr. T.M. Nair, Sir A. T. Pannerselvam, Sir P.T. Rajan, Raja of Bobbili Ramakrisha Ranga Rao, Dr. P. Subbarayan(yes father of Gen P.P. Kumaramangalam and his barrister communist brother)? Or for what matter, when did, C.N. Annadurai founder of the DMK renouce his separatism creed? There were many others, who wanted the Madras Presidency to secede from the newly free Indian Dominion, and many were in traitorous consultation with Jinnah in 1947/48. But Jinnah was after a bigger prize Jammu & Kashmir, he didn't care for either the south or Hyderabad or Junagadh!!! A brahman Sir C. P. R. Aiyer, the Dewan of Travancore was also disappointed by Jinnah! What the hell?to me English is no different than hindi or urdhu?all of them came from outside India?Sanskrit brought by Aryans , urdhu by Muslims and hindi is just a child of them both?Why do you want to hurt the feelings of the south Indians who have a culture and language more than 5000 years old by imposing a language just few 100 years old? We can live and prosper as Indians peacefully by respecting each others culture and language rather than spoiling everything by trying to impose on each other . India is a diverse country.Diversity has been our strength. We are united in diversity. It is a unique balance that you cant find in any other part of the world.So its best not to disturb it with fanatical thoughts like yours. How do you know that Hindi's life span is just 100 yrs old? Where did Hindi spring up from! Even Tamil stalwarts(yes including C.P.R. Aiyer, K.M. Panniker, Dr Lanka Sundaram, etc.) have admitted that Kannada, Malayalam. Telugu are better administrtative languages with Samskrit base. The unity in diversity which you talk about, came after the separatists were buried deep in the banks of Cauvery and Colladum. Check the elections of 1946, and earlier of 1937, and find out why the Justice Party was soundly trounced! What a stupid argument.If India was just Bihar, Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand, Madhya Pradesh, Uttaranchal, Uttar Pradesh, and some surrounding areas, then you don?t need English as medium of instruction.But you have more than a half billion people not speaking hindi now. Why was this so called stupid argument of mine, was not defeated in the proceedings of the Indian Constituent Assemly in 1947/48/49/Jan 1950? Have you read the proceedings of this Consembly or the Part XVII? don't go by the 1965 assurance of late PM Lal Bahadur after the Jan 1965 anti Hindi agitation. Really? Half a billion people do not speak Hindi! What a vainglorious shadow boxing that will play to the galleries of DMK & AIADMK A google search will not help you, till you talk to a serious student of Indian subcontinet(very humbly yours truly does know some facts, Proud of it) My glorious country will always be glorious. And its sure to climb further high in the near future.India and Indians are fast becoming the world power house of the service sector only because of the English language skill. Do you think India would have made it big with one billion people speaking and thinking like lallu pradad yadav and rabri devi? Get real man. Yes man, I am real, Forget Lalu or Rabri! Have never had good words for their like! If you feel, that India and Indians are great because of English language(sic) then you need a detailed evaluation by the best of shrinks! I would make better agruments for english as medium of instruction in science or medicine or engineering etc. But someone were to say, that Hindi and other Indian languages do not the test of competency, is arrant nonsence, demeaning to one's national honor and presitige and self respect. Swaabhimaan I hope you are not. And we are the only people who have, unflinchingly answered the call of Bharat Mata, in her times of desperation. And proud of it to the hilt! Better get a memory jog in history!

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musloko-maro RE:Have some questions from Hindi media people 11/30/2005 7:41:22 PM

Genesis Pl accept my apologies, if I have hurt the sentiments of Indians from the penisular region of Bharat. It is never my intention to belittle the great people of Bharat, and my better half does remind me, time and again, that I succeed in it all the time. I still maintain and hold that India should and must sever the last vestiges and umbilical chord, the alien language playing a primary role in the affairs of Bharat and Bharatiyas. On the question of the west asian faiths based on socalled "angelic revelations" I always hold my views, steadfast!

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Genesis RE:musloko-maro 12/1/2005 6:58:44 AM

hi buddy...i thought your last post was in very bad taste and didn?t deserve a reply from me. I don?t need to argue and prove to you or anybody about the valour and guts of Tamils... But as far as the "Hindi vs English" argument goes everybody is entitled to have his own opinion. In my opinion, its best for India to continue with English, for a lot of practical reasons. This does not mean English is better than Hindi or Tamil or any other Indian language.This is where most people misunderstand the argument. We have to accept whether we like it or not that English has come to stay as the universal language of communication. The world is shrinking everyday and our country can?t progress unless it integrates with the world. And to do that, English is a very useful tool. This tool is the only edge India has over countries like China and Russia. and hence I think it would be very na�ve to throw it away now. (BTW, I do speak Hindi very well and can also speak 4 other languages?Ach tung! )

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