Does israel have the best Air Force?

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Subject: Does israel have the best Air Force?
Worf_Israel 8/17/2003 7:15:10 AM

By what im told it is said Israel has the best trained air force in the world (i find it to be very true). it has been proven that the Israeli air force has taken on incredible odds when it comes to air force battle for example: when Israel attack the Iraq's nuclear facility, Israel sent 5 F-15 fighters to destroy the nuclear lab facility - after the f-15 cross to Iraq's air space 25 MG-22/23 (cant remember the MG number) were sent to destroy the F-15. NOT ONLY did the israel complete their mission they destroyed all 25 enemy aircraft without losing one of their own. even today it is CLEAR FACT that most US Air Force Tactics are tactics that were shown by the Israel - even today Israel has joined training with the USA (they don't talk about it) and the Israel pilots teach American pilots.(note:if you didn't know Israel and the UK has more joined training with the USA then any other country)

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french stratege 6/21/2007 4:05:10 PM

it is one of the main reasons the US doesn't want their f-35 to be upgraded by Israel.

The main reason USA doen't want their F35 to be upgraded by Israel is that they want to have a leverage on Israel policy.

F35 sofwtare is embedded with software lock.If Israel want F35, they will have now F35 controlled by USA (unless USA change their policy toward Israel).USA do not want that Israel add more mess in middle east and want Israel compromise a little with decent arabs (those who are decent).

Israel and developped a defense industry which make them too much indepedant from USA.They want to reverse that.

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eldnah 6/22/2007 7:51:03 PM

Common guys, the son of Lavi is the PLAAF J-10 not the Eurofighter. That's why the US is relunctant to share JSF technology with Isreal. Isreal, undestandably, will do what it believes is necessary to preserve Isreal which overrides any international agreements, besides a Shekel is a Shekel even if survival is not at stake.

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5thGuards 8/5/2007 1:25:11 PM

What the hell are you talking about Israel's airforce is the most experienced in the world , they are fighting continius battles trough decades , don't post such stupid comments and try to back up your statements next time.

On the topic : Israel air force the best in the world? No

Best experience? Yes
Best air tactics due to experience ? Probably
Best aircraft ? No.
Biggest airforce ? Not by far.

Conclusion : there is alot of airforces that are capable of defeating Israel , hence making Israel airforce weaker to those airforces , which include : USA , Russia , UK , France , Germany ( Getting eurofighters ) , India could probably too ( Su-30Mki , and high experienced and good trained pilots and eqipment ) .
China is doubtfull , most of their airforce is old seriusly out to date aircraft , only about 150-200 are medium old, and a few are new. China could probably give Israel a run for their money though , but with mostly outdate aircraft they would have big losses too.. Good tactics is all what Israel would need.

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Ya222 8/5/2007 2:14:10 PM

Best aircraft ? No. --- best missiles? yes
Biggest airforce ? Not by far. -- size doesn't matter - israel shows it by existing everyday..

Conclusion : there is alot of airforces that are capable of defeating Israel , hence making Israel airforce weaker to those airforces , which include :
Russia (in the last 25 years israel shot 90 russian jets while losing none)
UK -- why? isn't can strike the UK just like that UK can strike israel....
France -- this must be a bad joke of yours
Germany ( Getting eurofighters ) --- must be boring to be a jet pilot at a country that hardly ever fought anyone in the last 60 years
, India could probably too ( Su-30Mki , and high experienced and good trained pilots and eqipment ) . --------- israel upgraded almost all of the indian airforce = we know what they have = we have better equipment , they're one of our best allies anyway
China is doubtfull , most of their airforce is old seriusly out to date aircraft , only about 150-200 are medium old, and a few are new. China could probably give Israel a run for their money though , but with mostly outdate aircraft they would have big losses too.. Good tactics is all what Israel would need. ---- they're army is better than what you made it look..... not only size..

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5thGuards 8/5/2007 3:47:13 PM

Best aircraft ? No. --- best missiles? yes
Biggest airforce ? Not by far. -- size doesn't matter - israel shows it by existing everyday..

Conclusion
: there is alot of airforces that are capable of defeating Israel ,
hence making Israel airforce weaker to those airforces , which include
:
Russia (in the last 25 years israel shot 90 russian jets while losing none)
UK -- why? isn't can strike the UK just like that UK can strike israel....
France -- this must be a bad joke of yours
Germany ( Getting eurofighters ) --- must be boring to be a jet pilot at a country that hardly ever fought anyone in the last 60 years
, India
could probably too ( Su-30Mki , and high experienced and good trained
pilots and eqipment ) . --------- israel upgraded almost all of the indian airforce = we know what they have = we have better equipment , they're one of our best allies anyway
China is doubtfull , most of their airforce
is old seriusly out to date aircraft , only about 150-200 are medium
old, and a few are new. China could probably give Israel a run for
their money though , but with mostly outdate aircraft they would have
big losses too.. Good tactics is all what Israel would need. ---- they're army is better than what you made it look..... not only size..

Are you joking or do you really have no clue what the hell your talking about?

Israel producing best missiles in the world? Kid you have no clue what your talking about , best missile Israel produced is Derby medium ranged missile which has a range of 50km give or take a few.

Both AIM-120 and R-77 have a range of about 180KM.. how the hell are Israel missiles the best in the world kid?

About your shooting down Russian planes , are you joking or did you show how stupid you are again , the planes that they shoot down were mostly on AIRFIELDS , they did not even take of , the ones that did were OUT DATED , with OLD missiles , ever heard of Monkey Models? Then again EVEN IF THEY WERE EQUIPED WITH MODERN MISSILES THE PILOTS WERE UNEXPERIENCED AND HAD LOW FLIGHT HOURS AND WOULD NOT STAND A CHANCE.

UK can strike Israel , why can't they ? Don't get your reply at all ..

France a bad joke? You don't know the capability of Rafale do you , do you seriusly think F-16 can compete with Rafale? Then you really have no clue at all .

Yes India is a good ally from Israel , yet their airforce is very capable as is Israel's , and don't talk like you updated so much since most of the equipment that India has is from Russia.

What ? Since when is Army involved in Airforce ? Your hillarius , care to explain what Army and Airforce have in common , and also do you have the numbers from Chinese aircraft ? Do you know how many modern fighters they have? Do you realize how much flight hours their pilots are getting? Do you realize and understand Chinese Doctrine? I doubt it , I really do ..

Next time post comprehensive backups of your claims because they are all just claims that are not true and would certainly not work in real life combat.

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Daemonicus223 8/6/2007 7:40:27 PM

The function of any Air Force in the world (IAF and USAF included obviously) is to support the infantry. Now I'm not claiming to be especially objective here but this is the essential criteria one should use to judge a supporting arm. Granted its still difficult to judge due to fundamnental differences in the countries we at least have a criteria now.

First lets build a few more criteria to better flesh out this comparison. The IAF and USAF are fundamentally different. For one all of Israel's fixed wing military assets fall under the IAF, this is not the case with the USAF. In fact many of the best pilots in the US are in the Navy and especially the Marine Corps (don't believe me, find an Israeli pilot that can land a plane vertically on the deck of a moving ship in sea state 5 conditions). In fact it would be more valid to compare the IAF to USMC aviation as their roles are more closely related.

Now, is the IAF better than the USAF? I wouldn't know I haven't served in both and I haven't devoted the time to research and find out. But I would definitely contend that the IAF is more innovative. The raid on the Iraqi reactor, the Six Day War, the list goes on. Now the US could have sent up its B2s flown over Iraq at its leisure, dropped some PGMs or other goodies, and gotten home in time for a beer at the O club. But Israel effectively did the same thing with a few short range strike fighters. Or in 67 when Israeli F-51s cut Egyptian comm relays with their wings, destroyed most of the Egyptian and Jordanian Air Forces on the ground, then decimated Syrian tank divisions in the Golan. These are just a few examples but it does show at least the tip of the ice burg.

We can all debate whose platforms are shinier and newer until the end of the world but in order for any meaningful debate lets look at what is accomplished with them. Look at the hundreds of aircraft the Israelis destroyed with only a handful of their own in the Six Day War. Were they on the ground? You bet becuase any Air Force commander worth their salt would not let an enemy get into a position in which a straight fight was possible, and that shows the IAFs superior innovation.

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Ya222 8/7/2007 3:39:06 AM

Let me guess u're russian.. did you know that in 1973 war israel shot down Russian pilots who flew for the egyptians? search in google

F-16 can compete with Rafale? well you can put a chopper with the missiles we have and shoot down a su-30

and don't talk like you updated so much since most of the equipment that India has is from Russia. --- again it's like russia proves the spear and israel provides the diamond in it's head.. everything israel sold india was better than what the russians could offer....

What ? Since when is Army involved in Airforce ? Your hillarius , care to explain what Army and Airforce have in common , and also do you have the numbers from Chinese aircraft ? Do you know how many modern fighters they have? Do you realize how much flight hours their pilots are getting? Do you realize and understand Chinese Doctrine? I doubt it , I really do .. ------------------ do you know who i am ? no so take in account i can be the israeli intelligent commander... ;)

Both AIM-120 and R-77 have a range of about 180KM.. how the hell are Israel missiles the best in the world kid? ------ israel has the best short range missile? python 5? ok. now we take it's head and computers and turn it into Derby missiles for medium range.... but what's the problem making it bigger? - do you know all the ammo the IAF's jets can carry?

I love it when russians always clame that when other countries use russian millitary aquipment it losses, because it wasnt flewn by russian.. give me a brake, r russian better men than syrians or egyptians?

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5thGuards 8/7/2007 9:18:22 AM

Again you prooven that you don't know what your talking about and you cant back up anything you say.

" Let me guess u're russian.. did you know that in 1973 war israel shot down Russian pilots who flew for the egyptians?"

No im not Russian , thats funny why you claim that , because I claim facts that are true?
Im well aware of the Mig-21's beeing shot down , whats ur point ? Mirage was far superiur to Mig-21.

"F-16 can compete with Rafale? well you can put a chopper with the missiles we have and shoot down a su-30"

This statement coming from you is hilarius , we can put a chopper with the missiles we have which have a range of 50km and shot down a Su-30 , lmao

" again it's like russia proves the spear and israel provides the diamond in it's head.. everything israel sold india was better than what the russians could offer...."

Yea ? What exactly is better?

" do you know who i am ? no so take in account i can be the israeli intelligent commander... ;) "

Nice answer to my question , I still don't get it why you think Army and Airforce are the same , kinda strainge ..

" israel has the best short range missile? python 5? ok. now we take it's head and computers and turn it into Derby missiles for medium range.... but what's the problem making it bigger? - do you know all the ammo the IAF's jets can carry? "

What the hell does ammo of IAF do with anything ? YOu trully have no clue what you are saying , your best missile's range is 50KM , do you understand that? Your plane would be dead faaaaaaaar before it could engage any plane armed with AIM-120 OR R-77 , or other missiles that have a far superior range..

"I love it when russians always clame that when other countries use russian millitary aquipment it losses, because it wasnt flewn by russian.. give me a brake, r russian better men than syrians or egyptians?"

For once your a idiot If you don't know that USSR sold obsolete equipment to everybody , they had advanced eqipment and they sold DOWNGRADED equipment to others , google Monkey Models dude ... And also there is a fact that Syrian pilots are not even close to what USSR pilots had training wise.

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Ya222 8/7/2007 4:44:27 PM

No im not Russian , thats funny why you claim that , because I claim facts that are true?
Im well aware of the Mig-21's beeing shot down , whats ur point ? Mirage was far superiur to Mig-21.
far superiur?? maybe the mirage was Better used,

"F-16 can compete with Rafale? well you can put a chopper with the missiles we have and shoot down a su-30"
This statement coming from you is hilarius , we can put a chopper with the missiles we have which have a range of 50km and shot down a Su-30 , lmao YES YOU GOT IT RIGHT THAN - my statement was the make ur statement look stupid because in 2007 it doesn't matter what jet u got, it's the missiles and early detection..

" again it's like russia
proves the spear and israel provides the diamond in it's head..
everything israel sold india was better than what the russians could
offer...."

Yea ? What exactly is better? Do you want me to provide my enemies with info over the Inet ?? :) FACT: India bought russian jets and upgraded most using Israeli systems.. i will not explain but the indians must have a reason....

" do you know who i am ? no so take in account i can be the israeli intelligent commander... ;) "

Nice answer to my question , I still don't get it why you think Army and Airforce are the same , kinda strainge ..
what do you mean by that? i really dont understand you

" israel has the best
short range missile? python 5? ok. now we take it's head and computers
and turn it into Derby missiles for medium range.... but what's the
problem making it bigger? - do you know all the ammo the IAF's jets can
carry? "

What the hell does ammo of IAF do with anything ? YOu trully have no clue what you are saying , your best missile's range is 50KM , do you understand that? Your plane would be dead faaaaaaaar before it could engage any plane armed with AIM-120 OR R-77 , or other missiles that have a far superior range.. ------ AGAIN do you know all the ammo the IAF's jets can carry?

"I love it when russians
always clame that when other countries use russian millitary aquipment
it losses, because it wasnt flewn by russian.. give me a brake, r
russian better men than syrians or egyptians?"

For once your a idiot If you don't know that USSR sold obsolete equipment to everybody , they had advanced eqipment and they sold DOWNGRADED equipment to others , google Monkey Models dude ... And also there is a fact that Syrian pilots are not even close to what USSR pilots had training wise.

If the arabs thought this equipment is good enough to destory israel in 1973 i wouldn't call it Bad.. Did russia sell the arabs DOWNGRADED SAM systems? cause i remember their SAM being very effective in war..
so now u'll say they sold the latest sams they could ? (SAM = MISSILES TECHNOLOGY that can be transffered to jets)

Goodday

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5thGuards 8/7/2007 7:07:09 PM

No im not Russian , thats funny why you claim that , because I claim facts that are true?
Im well aware of the Mig-21's beeing shot down , whats ur point ? Mirage was far superiur to Mig-21.
far superiur?? maybe the mirage was Better used,

"F-16 can compete with Rafale? well you can put a chopper with the missiles we have and shoot down a su-30"
This statement coming from you is hilarius , we can put a chopper with the missiles we have which have a range of 50km and shot down a Su-30 , lmao YES YOU GOT IT RIGHT THAN - my statement was the make ur statement look stupid because in 2007 it doesn't matter what jet u got, it's the missiles and early detection..

" again it's like russia

proves the spear and israel provides the diamond in it's head..

everything israel sold india was better than what the russians could

offer...."

Yea ? What exactly is better? Do you want me to provide my enemies with info over the Inet ?? :) FACT: India bought russian jets and upgraded most using Israeli systems.. i will not explain but the indians must have a reason....

" do you know who i am ? no so take in account i can be the israeli intelligent commander... ;) "

Nice answer to my question , I still don't get it why you think Army and Airforce are the same , kinda strainge ..
what do you mean by that? i really dont understand you

" israel has the best

short range missile? python 5? ok. now we take it's head and computers

and turn it into Derby missiles for medium range.... but what's the

problem making it bigger? - do you know all the ammo the IAF's jets can

carry? "

What the hell does ammo of IAF do with anything ? YOu trully have no clue what you are saying , your best missile's range is 50KM , do you understand that? Your plane would be dead faaaaaaaar before it could engage any plane armed with AIM-120 OR R-77 , or other missiles that have a far superior range.. ------ AGAIN do you know all the ammo the IAF's jets can
carry?

"I love it when russians

always clame that when other countries use russian millitary aquipment

it losses, because it wasnt flewn by russian.. give me a brake, r

russian better men than syrians or egyptians?"

For once your a idiot If you don't know that USSR sold obsolete equipment to everybody , they had advanced eqipment and they sold DOWNGRADED equipment to others , google Monkey Models dude ... And also there is a fact that Syrian pilots are not even close to what USSR pilots had training wise.

If the arabs thought this equipment is good enough to destory israel in 1973 i wouldn't call it Bad.. Did russia sell the arabs DOWNGRADED SAM systems? cause i remember their SAM being very effective in war..
so now u'll say they sold the latest sams they could ? (SAM = MISSILES TECHNOLOGY that can be transffered to jets)

Goodday

"YES YOU GOT IT RIGHT THAN - my statement was the make ur statement look stupid because in 2007 it doesn't matter what jet u got, it's the missiles and early detection.."

Uhm? Your in denial if you think Israel has better missiles than Russia , tell me 1 medium ranged missile that can even come close to R-77 , or R-37 ?
Btw Early Detection , I guess you mean 707's converted to AWACS , well ok if you play this kind of game ( that doesnt make sense because we are comparing airplanes ) Russians have awacs too , and also Mig-31 which was designed to shot down AWACS beyond any AWACS range with Zaslon-M and R-37.

"what do you mean by that? i really dont understand you"

Earlyer we were talking about israel airforce and you mixed Army and Airforce together , like they are the same .

"AGAIN do you know all the ammo the IAF's jets can carry? "

and AGAIN it does not matter because we are comparing best "Israel" missile which you claimed to be the best in the world and i prooven you wrong and still you cannot proove me wrong.

"If the arabs thought this equipment is good enough to destory israel in 1973 i wouldn't call it Bad.. Did russia sell the arabs DOWNGRADED SAM syste

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