I guess FAA fast jet selection has to be harder because you have an all Harrier force, the most difficult aircraft to fly. Selecting and training pilots from scratch simply to fly Harriers has got to involve some pretty high hurdles and given the time - is it still 4 years before FAA pilots get to their first Harrier squadron? - and the small number of places, you can't afford many washouts.

As for helos - back in 1982 my company got to war game in the UK (a place called Imber Village on Salisbury Plain?) in a real mixed bag exercise against a TA unit called Wessex Rangers (I think?). We were the "Orange". We were supported by an equally mixed bag of helos; some Wessex V helos from one of the NAS Commando squdrons and two or three Puma from an RAF sqn with a Tiger emblem (sorry, all I can remember). Well, we got tied up in the center of town near the "roundabout" which was covered in low bushes and with two storey buildings all around giving a circular clearing of perhaps 60 yd circumference; things got tight so we requested a dust-off. A Naval Wessex V helo screamed into view took one look at the roudabout and the below-minimal building clearances (I mean, way below safety clearance!) and just dropped the last 60 feet like an express elevator onto the top of the roundabout, the tail actually bouncing off one of the road signs and the rotor tips some 4' from the nearest building! Really, really tight fit! And he just made it look sooo easy! I guess if its not moving it must have seemed easy. Half my guys got out that way. As soon as the Navy Wessex helo departed a RAF Puma appeared; acknowledged the ground controller who had his arms raised to wave him in, took one look at the roundabout, turned away and landed in a field 500 yds away. 500 yds doesn't sound far, but when you're in contact...we had to run the gauntlet out of town, across a road, fences, etc. to get there, only to find the crew outside having a smoke. Not as impressive, especially since he'd seen the Wessex go in before hand. The Brit army guys said the RAF helo pilots were also known for not navigating well; a colonel we were with said he would put army navigators in the co-pilot spot if they dropped another patrol in the wrong place. After all these years, whenever I hear about helo flying anywhere, I always think about that Royal Navy Wessex - we had our backs to the buildings and I thought he was going to hit one and crash on top of us! The blade tips can't have been four feet away and were definitely more than 45 degrees above our heads! Truly awesome flying - go FAA!

The arab attack was known of about 2 days in advance but Israel was in a demobilized state and could not fully mobilize very fast, also another important factor is that when Israel asked the US for help with supplies, the americans said that they would only provide Israel with aid if the arabs are seen as the aggresors. This was what prevented the IDF from launching a pre-emptive strike against egypt, syria and jordan as they did in the six day war. Also what are you talking about Dayan panicked? he was not even the defence minister at the time. he left the cabiinet when they tried to blame him for not preventing all the terrorist attacks. The PM actually had to BEG Dayan to take the defence ministry for the duration of the war because the new defence minister turned out to be useless, without Dayan the chances of Israel losing the war would have been increased.

you know whats cool israelis pilot are coming to the air force base that i live at to train and im gonna meet them

I'm going through my vast collection of aviation mags now... I recall a few years' back about an incident at the Int'l (NATO?) Air Meet in California. Correctly, 2 RAF Jaguars "on the deck" got the jump on 2 USAF F-15's strutting their "stuff" at altitude... so much for "American superiority"... heh heh heh.

http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/rn/frigates/tribal/tribal7.jpg Here's an incentive for FAA helo pilots to be good at landing in small spaces (Tribal class frigates of the 1960s-1980s). Oh, out if interest, I'm sure you're aware that FAA pilots are usually refered to as WAFUs?

I think perhaps you are confusing the 67 war with the 73 war. In May 67, Levi Eshkol, the Israeli PM, gave a radio address to the Israeli public about the crisis (the Egyptians had asked the UN to remove its troops from the Sinai, and they did so) where he appeared very weak and hesitant. Rabin, the Chief of Staff af the time and others pressured Eshkol into accepting Dayan as Defense Minister, who he really didn't want in the job. Once Dayan was appointed, war was inevitable. In 73, Dayan was still Minister of Defense, Chief of Staff was David Elazar, PM was Golda Meier, DPM was Yigael Allon, and Director of Intelligence was Gen Zeira, who absolutely refused to believe that Israel was about to be attacked by Egypt and Syria. His prediction was "the lowest of the low". He didn't change his mind until 4am the morning war broke out (Oct 6). Not all Israeli generals were quite that blind, and some, like Israel Tal (ended up the father of the Merkava tank) were convinced war was going to break out. A young Lieutenant, Benjamin Siman Tov was an intelligence officer on the Suez front, and on October 1 submitted a report to his superiors to the effect he thought war was going to break out. This was ignored, and never went up the chain of command. When they figured out after the war what happened, he got promoted. Israel, because it didn't have an answer to the SAM 6, and because its attacks were uncoordinated lost about 10% of its front line air force strength in the first week, I think about 50 planes and was begging the U.S. for help. Kissinger and the pentagon kept delaying action, until it became obvious the Russians were pouring in supplies. Nixon was determined that the US resupply effort to Israel would be greater than the Russian resupply effort to the Egyptians, and ultimately it was. F4's were taken directly from front line US units and flown to Israel. Kissinger used Israel's surrounding of the Egyptian 3rd army to get the Egyptians to agree to a mutual troop withdrawal which eventually turned into a peace treaty.

I stand corrected - thank you.

hello everbody,on the question whether the israelis have the best airforce,iam suprised not many did mention the russian airforce,is there an apathy towards them,an airforce i believe is judged by size ,well trained pilots and most importantly the type of aircraft they are flying,russians make one thebest fighter planes with characteristics that most us and western aircraft do not possess,for me know body can confidently say one nation has the better airforce until the engage each other in battle or rather meet in WWIII,but be honest guys from aircraft design the russians certainly are amongst the best,reply if u disagree with me!

hello everbody,on the question whether the israelis have the best airforce,iam suprised not many did mention the russian airforce,is there an apathy towards them,an airforce i believe is judged by size ,well trained pilots and most importantly the type of aircraft they are flying,russians make one thebest fighter planes with characteristics that most us and western aircraft do not possess,for me know body can confidently say one nation has the better airforce until the engage each other in battle or rather meet in WWIII,but be honest guys from aircraft design the russians certainly are amongst the best,reply if u disagree with me!