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Subject: China taps into U.S. spy operations
Softwar    12/21/2007 11:10:32 AM
http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071221/NATION/676409066/1001 China's intelligence service gained access to a secret National Security Agency listening post in Hawaii through a Chinese-language translation service, according to U.S. intelligence officials. The spy penetration was discovered several years ago as part of a major counterintelligence probe by the Naval Criminal Investigative Service (NCIS) that revealed an extensive program by China's spy service to steal codes and other electronic intelligence secrets, and to recruit military and civilian personnel with access to them. According to officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity, China's Ministry of State Security, the main civilian spy service, carried out the operations by setting up a Chinese translation service in Hawaii that represented itself as a U.S.-origin company. The ruse led to classified contracts with the Navy and NSA to translate some of the hundreds of thousands of intercepted communications gathered by NSA's network of listening posts, aircraft and ships. NCIS agents discovered that the translation service, which officials did not identify by name, had conducted contract work for the National Security Agency facility at Kunia, an underground electronic intelligence post some 15 miles northwest of Honolulu that conducts some of the U.S. intelligence community's most sensitive work. Kunia is both a processing center and a collection point for large amounts of Chinese- and other Asian-language communications, which are translated and used in classified intelligence reports on military and political developments. Naval intelligence officials familiar with the Chinese spy penetration said the access to both "raw" and analyzed intelligence at Kunia caused significant damage by giving China's government details on both the targets and the sources of U.S. spying operations. Such information would permit the Chinese to block the eavesdropping or to provide false and misleading "disinformation" to U.S. intelligence.
 
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YelliChink       12/21/2007 12:25:15 PM

The ruse led to classified contracts with the Navy and NSA to translate some of the hundreds of thousands of intercepted communications gathered by NSA's network of listening posts, aircraft and ships.

Uh....... Are people in USN and NSA who are responsible for these contracts IDIOTS!? With all the money they have, why don't they spend probably $100,000 to fund a Chinese language program to have some translators in their own hierachy?
 
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Zhang Fei       12/21/2007 2:09:50 PM
YC: Uh....... Are people in USN and NSA who are responsible for these contracts IDIOTS!? With all the money they have, why don't they spend probably $100,000 to fund a Chinese language program to have some translators in their own hierachy?

I think no one here takes the Chinese threat seriously. Plenty of people say they do. But they really don't. We embargoed the Soviets and took all kinds of steps to make Kremlinology a career path for upwardly mobile government people. I don't think Sinology rates. Yet.
 
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displacedjim       12/21/2007 2:55:34 PM
OH MY GOD!!!
 
WTF?!?
 
This is horrendous!  For the first time that I can remember I am embarrassed of NSA.  There are (or were) some people at the KRSOC who should be taken over and thrown into Kilauea.
 
 
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AdvanceAustralia       12/21/2007 3:07:38 PM
NCIS?

Let Gibbs, DiNozzo & McGee loose on the PRC. One look from Gibbs and Hu Jintao will cede Taiwan forever.

Oh, and bring back Kate.

Cheers.

 
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Nanheyangrouchuan       12/22/2007 2:13:08 AM
There is no intelligence in US intelligence.

And how did this company land the contract?  Who sold the package? Who approved it? Who lobbied for it?

And this leads back to a thread about the overhyping of HUMINT.  This job was basic HUMINT at its absolute finest.
I'm going to look up the "36 calculations" tomorrow sometime and see where this fits in.  This was a brilliant f*n job no two ways about it.

And we'll keep letting the defense and homeland security industry sell us expensive junk while the PLA walks in and takes up a paying position providing translators and analysts for our China operations.

Remember, all of our ELINT still needs translators and people with full cultural awareness to sift through the ELINT data.
And the PLA is more than happy to provide that service.

So nearly all of our ELINT data for the past 5 years or more is completely useless and probably way off of the mark.
Nice job to everyone in DC, San Diego, Silicon Valley, DOD, NSA, CIA, Homeland Suckurity, etc.

Our system really sucks, the Chinese are taking us for a ride.  Time to start shooting people.

 
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Nanheyangrouchuan       12/22/2007 2:14:52 AM
Hey Softwar, could provide the actual link in quotes or something?
 
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Blue Seadragon       12/22/2007 7:14:40 AM
Look in your email from Maria Chiang.   You already had it - before it was posted here.
 
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displacedjim       12/22/2007 2:29:44 PM

And this leads back to a thread about the overhyping of HUMINT.  This job was basic HUMINT at its absolute finest.
I'm going to look up the "36 calculations" tomorrow sometime and see where this fits in.  This was a brilliant f*n job no two ways about it.

And we'll keep letting the defense and homeland security industry sell us expensive junk while the PLA walks in and takes up a paying position providing translators and analysts for our China operations.

Remember, all of our ELINT still needs translators and people with full cultural awareness to sift through the ELINT data.
And the PLA is more than happy to provide that service.

So nearly all of our ELINT data for the past 5 years or more is completely useless and probably way off of the mark.
Nice job to everyone in DC, San Diego, Silicon Valley, DOD, NSA, CIA, Homeland Suckurity, etc.

Our system really sucks, the Chinese are taking us for a ride.  Time to start shooting people.


This has nothing to do with US HUMINT, which is what I was ranting about in the other thread you mention.  This is Chinese HUMINT and US Counter-Intelligence, and you're right that this was a brilliant f*n job.  If the facts are as bad as this sounds, I bet this could be one of the most amazing penetrations and biggest leaks in our collection capabilities in history.
 
It's only COMINT that needs translators (just a little correction/education--so many people use "Electronic Intelligence" when they should say "Communications Intelligence"), and no, this absolutely does not at all mean that all or even some of our COMINT data for the last five years is completely useless or even way off the mark.  However, it does mean that China very likely now has an excellent grasp (rather than a very educated guess) of how extremely much we routinely collect from them using COMINT.
 
To paraphrase Churchill, you're right:  Our system really sucks, except for being better than all the alternatives.  Or to put it another way, your assessment that our system really sucks is really wrong.

 
 
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Herald12345       12/22/2007 3:25:30 PM



And this leads back to a thread about the overhyping of HUMINT.  This job was basic HUMINT at its absolute finest.
I'm going to look up the "36 calculations" tomorrow sometime and see where this fits in.  This was a brilliant f*n job no two ways about it.

And we'll keep letting the defense and homeland security industry sell us expensive junk while the PLA walks in and takes up a paying position providing translators and analysts for our China operations.

Remember, all of our ELINT still needs translators and people with full cultural awareness to sift through the ELINT data.
And the PLA is more than happy to provide that service.

So nearly all of our ELINT data for the past 5 years or more is completely useless and probably way off of the mark.
Nice job to everyone in DC, San Diego, Silicon Valley, DOD, NSA, CIA, Homeland Suckurity, etc.

Our system really sucks, the Chinese are taking us for a ride.  Time to start shooting people.



This has nothing to do with US HUMINT, which is what I was ranting about in the other thread you mention.  This is Chinese HUMINT and US Counter-Intelligence, and you're right that this was a brilliant f*n job.  If the facts are as bad as this sounds, I bet this could be one of the most amazing penetrations and biggest leaks in our collection capabilities in history.

 

It's only COMINT that needs translators (just a little correction/education--so many people use "Electronic Intelligence" when they should say "Communications Intelligence"), and no, this absolutely does not at all mean that all or even some of our COMINT data for the last five years is completely useless or even way off the mark.  However, it does mean that China very likely now has an excellent grasp (rather than a very educated guess) of how extremely much we routinely collect from them using COMINT.

 

To paraphrase Churchill, you're right:  Our system really sucks, except for being better than all the alternatives.  Or to put it another way, your assessment that our system really sucks is really wrong.


 

Agree as to the damage assessment-very bad, but not fatal. But still someone responsible for this hole and security failure needs to DIE over this mistake. I still shudder over the damage that John Walker did.

Maybe they don't have our encryption, but they do have our coverage schemes and by extension our own HUMINT setup, inside their little worker's paradise.

Herald

 
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Blue Seadragon       12/22/2007 4:37:15 PM
It greatly increases the chances of their maskarovka unit being able to come up with operational methods we can not understand in time.  Knowing our SOPs and what we collected - and what we didn't (because of course they know what we didn't) - is vital to that work.  PLA established such a unit about five years ago.
 
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