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Subject: 2009 displays of the F-22 and the Rafale
Bluewings12    6/24/2009 5:03:48 PM
Let 's watch them first :-)

The F-22
h*tp://www.air-attack.com/videos/single/cAhL7lJCk4I

The Rafale :
h*tp://www.dailymotion.com/user/ministeredeladefense/video/x9ma8h_demonstration-du-rafale_news

Both aircrafts are pulling nice stuff . Rafale only does it twice faster . Explaination and details to follow .

Cheers .
 
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usajoe1       8/7/2009 2:12:24 AM
The CDG is about one thing, pride.  It allows France to move a couple dozen Rafale's pretty much anywhere in the ocean, but that is a force too small to do anything but small-scale punitive strikes against an opponent with any real level of capability. 

When shes not in harbor for repairs of another poorly designed feature, or overhal, then she might be usefull aginst some third rate Military, somewhere in Africa or the Mid East.
 
Ship or submarine launched cruise missiles would offer the same capability at a tiny fraction of the cost.  
 
And be more reliable, knowing that France has designed successful subs and cruise missiles. 
 
Quote    Reply

Herald12345    U've mnet the burden   8/7/2009 9:24:47 AM

Read that press release again.

 

You know, the burden of proof is on you. So unless you can quote the exact words, telling me to read it again simply won't work. But you can't since this is an order for modification of existing PWII kits, it does not include bomb bodies or fuzes.

 

Note that the French forces do use some US-made bombs and fuzes but the vast majority of bombs (mk8x/CBEMS with PWII or AASM kits) use a French fuze.

Paveway afterbody uses a US base fuse to detonate the fill in the bomb body blank, amateur.

You really are not well informed are you?

 
Quote    Reply

french stratege       8/7/2009 9:44:47 AM
Ship or submarine launched cruise missiles would offer the same capability at a tiny fraction of the cost.
 
No.
CdG can deliver 100 to 110 Rafale sorties per day at maximum and assuming 70 are for strike it means we can deliver 660 precision guided bomb per day or almost 5000 in a week.To use 5000 cruises missiles would be costly (twice price of CdG in missiles alone) and need as much VLS that US Navy have.
Difficult to think that an air threat that can detect and reach any target in a 2000 km radius is something to dismiss.
Civilian ships can be detected and hit at will in those 4000 km wide spot and I think it would seriously distrub naval traffic of a country like India or China unless they managed to sink it...if they can.
I don't know how India or China could today easily sink it in blue sea 2000 km away from their coast since India has no operational SSN and few SU30 and China has noisy SSN and inferior SU.
When German send the Bismarck in Atlantic, UK was panicked for its sea lines and managed to sink it but they had a strong naval superiority over Germans.
 
CdG is not a secondary tool: its is a major diplomatic tool and military tool for conventional (or nuclear) reprisals with global reach and only US and France have such a tool.
Maybe only one for France does not seems impressive but better than zero.
36 Rafale and 3 E2C on board does not seems impressive but still better in strenght than all air forces and navies of Latin America and Africa (except Algeria or Egypt which are close to France and that our air force can reach) or Indian ocean except India.
Even a 40 modern surface ship navy like Japan has no chance to sink a target like CdG battle group in blue water.There ships would be detected much before they get in reach of french battle group to launch their 200 km antiship missiles and they would be hit ressently by our aircrafts.
Only SSN are a real threat for our battle group in blue water (SSK are too slow and are like dormant mines) and it supposes you have several decent ones and ability to counter ours.Only USA, UK and Russia have that
 
We need a second one to be able to deploy even when CdG is in maintenance. Granted.
China or India or Russia or UK try to get such tool for a good reason.Currently only Russia has an aircraft carrier with decent air superiority fighter but few on it, no AWACs like E2C, and little payload and autonomy for strike since their navalized Sukhoi are STOBAR.
Now it is not a cheap tool.
She had cost to France (including specific R&D) 15 billions $ with its aircraft complement without even its surface or SSN escort.The price of 10 modern SSN.
Compare to USA and its 11 carriers and 57 modern SSN, France with 1 carrier (60% of a US one) and 6 SSN look pale since it is 5,5% of USA for naval air and 10% in SSN but not a force to dismiss since other navies have much less in blue water(except UK and Russia).
I agree that USA dominates completly blue water ocean unless striked by surprise in harbor and by SSN in peace time.
But USA is not France ennemy.A single REAL carrier give us a global capability second in world.
 
Quote    Reply

french stratege       8/7/2009 9:48:57 AM
Sorry I forgot to correct my message
 
CdG can deliver 100 to 110 Rafale sorties per day at maximum and assuming 70 are for strike it means we can deliver 420 stand off precision guided bomb per day like AASM (50 km range) , or almost 3000 in a week.Or with all sorties to strike, 660  or almost 5000 in a week.
 
 
 
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JFKY    To be fair   8/7/2009 9:55:44 AM
I think FS has a point...Only France has a sustained air power projection capacity...certainly Britain doesn't.  I believe s/he is correct in stating that the CdG could deliver the level of firepower against the Russians, Indians and PRC he claims...I think that against the PRC and Russia it would be a one-off thing, one strike and then the CdG is sunk, but it COULD be done.  I think the CdG could hold its own against the Indians.
 
Bottom-line: Not everything Fs says is wrong...just most of it.  But s/he is correct in the claim that after the USN France has the most sustained air strike capacity, assuming the CdG isn't broken on the day you need to launch the air strikes.
 
Quote    Reply

Herald12345       8/7/2009 10:18:44 AM

To Herald

 

"For the rest of you, some nations do  some things very well. Ballistic rockets and subs, even torpedoes, the French do very well (better than the US in many cases MU90 being an example) ."

Thank to recognize it 
Better to say, I am unbiased and objective0-something which you cannot claim..
"Commercial aviation their products are  pedestrian to terrible(A400M disaster)."
 

Like Falcon jet from Dassault, Ecureuil or Dauphin from french part of Eurocopter, A300 or A330 (won US tanker contract initially, won Australian or Canadian contracts), or CFM 56 joint venture?
 
The Dolphin was just okay. As soon as the USCG  had something with which to replace it we did. As for Falconjet,
 
Only one of many yo correct Dassault incompetence. By the way did you ever thank Lear and MBB for the technology you STOLE?
 
EADS double gouvernance problem are specific happened since EADS was formed and also due to German.

That was ALL 1%er France, you misinformed poster. The German management told YOU to go to hell.

Likewise combat aircraft (Rafale). Combat ordnance, their A2G ordnance in its latest iteration is fair to excellent depending on type(SCALP being excellent). Their latest  A2A weapons and SAM systems, as long as its not modern MBDA [Matra]), is only just okay (CROTALE and Matra Magic and 530 work aa intended, the rest is junk.).

Rafale is good but late on roadamp improvment since funding is slow due to budgetary constraint.Still best aircraft in the world outside USA.And Mica is good as Aster.

 You cannot alibi failure.


Their latest surface fleet combatant series (Forbin and Lafayette) are jokes (Combat information system integration failures and one hit and they explode and sink design horrors).
   


Crap. Just developement problems lile US have.Remember the DD51 which has to be towed back to an US harbor because of a software fault.

 Our combat systems have seen combat. They work. WE corrected our softwate glitch, amnd it was not towed back, liar. It steamed back on manual.

The French use a heck of a lot more American technology than they care to admit,

We use some US tech like USA which use some french tech also in the Pac 3 for exemple.The key is to be able to produce it or duplicate it in case of bad relationship with USA.Like for you.
 
We don't use much of your stuff at all, (Durandel we use to bust runways) because we know most of it doesn't work. What we do use that you call "French" (CAD and operations software) WE DEVELOP HERE. Your holding companies do not even understand the tech that their US subsidiaries make that you buy from us and use. Why do you think that most of your "French" software has its origin point in Massachissettes, Minnesota, Washington, California, and Georgia?    

We use US tech when:

1)It is a secondary system which could not prevent us to militarly act, even US put an embargo, and which would be too costly to develop ourselves:

exemple: E3F AWACs, or E2F which have a french specific software maintained by us and a good stockpile of spares.
 
You  are ignorant. The software is OURS, the countermeasures are ours the exploits are ours. We can blind you at a whim becauase we KNOW our own system better than you do.

KC135 are old tech easy to copy and maintain alone.Like C130J. More over we produce CFM56 for KC135.
 
That is the GE F108 that we licensed to you chump.  SBECMA got to build the easy parts that we know you couldn't screw up, like the low pressure fan, the gearbox and the exhaust shroud . The high pressure compressor, the turbine and  the combustion pot (the kernel) our ours. 80/20   

An other exemple are Paweway bombs we use as long we can, since they are much cheaper than french equivalent and NATO widespread.
 
Nope. You tried to duplicate the "slicks" to steal market share  and you  screwed it up. CREF above.

An other exemple is contract awarded for US Hellfire missiles for french Tigers, which are only laser guided and an ammunition.US can not prevent us to use our stockpile, since there is no EW external communication system.And we can relaunch and produce Trigat we have developped but not produced as too costly.
Trigat failed technically or you would have marketed it to compete with HELLFIRE. Why do you LIE? Just who the hell do you think you are dealing with here wiuth such a clumsy lie?
Our AASM stock is primary for own France strategic use as we can use it without relying on US GPS.Like our Arcole laser guided one ton bomb.or AS30L.
Stupid assertion.  The AS30 L is obsolete by US standards and the Arcole? When did that piece of junk get made? ......1986, about 100 unit  count for the Mirage 20000 (the Rafale is not coded for it) was the run I belueve when that debacle was ended.?? 
 
2)It does not jeopardize our technological and industrial base by diverting fundings

 Of course it does.. You try something, cannot make a go of it, waste money on it anyway, and wind up with an inferior copy of something that your EU partners make much better and in more numbers (Typhoon and Daring is the classic example of two such products)

 because their own stuff doesn't work that well. Their GP bombs for example. (fuses)  American fuses finally do work (only avarage performance here , Russian and British are just better designs) after decades of being the example of the worst fuse technology tree on Earth

See answer above.

 Yes see MY answer underlined.

Today weapons are complex and often rely on numerical technology.

If you don't access to sofware, you even don't know if there is no embedded sotware lock which could block free use in case of embargo.

It is absolutely vital to keep our defense industrial and and technology base to be free to use our military power even if USA oppose it, like in Suez in 1956
If we don't develop some key tech ourselves, we will lose knowledge and skills to design them and it will be almost impossible to come back at world tech state of art (define often by USA themselves as they are the most advanced in average).

It is vital to preserve our key design capabilities.

To do cooperation on systems with euro partners on equal share more or less, preserve our skills and access to blueprint, software and technologies.

However we will continue on a 100% national base for systems which are necessary or close to deterrent like SSBN, SSN, SLMBM or a particular french version of fighters able to carry nuclear weapons, or ECM for exemple.

And that is why I don't think much of you, FS. You really don't know as much as you pretend you do.
Try looking up a list of the softwarte companies that THALES list as subsidiaries. See where MOST of them are located.

And then be silent about "French" tech.
 
 
Quote    Reply

Blue Apple       8/7/2009 11:15:01 AM
Paveway afterbody uses a US base fuse to detonate the fill in the bomb body blank, amateur.
 
What the hell is the "fill in the bomb body blank"? Could you at least try to speak English?
 
And as you're an "expert", you should know that different types of fuze can be fitted to the bomb used on a Paveway kit. For example, the UK uses the multi-function bomb fuze (MFBF) 947 or 960 on their PWII kit.
 
Likewise, French air force and Aeronavale have used different fuzes, some the older Matra designs, some US-made bought as an interim solution until their own next generation fuze were available and now this next generation fuze.
 
You really are not well informed are you?

If you're so well informed, please give us the reference of the US fuze used in French PWII. Obviously it's a FMU-xyz. Shouldn't be too hard for an "expert" like you.
 
Quote    Reply

french stratege       8/7/2009 12:01:56 PM
I'm sorry Herald, it was not a DD 51 which was towed to harbor by a software malfunction, but a US Aegis cruiser.
Rest of your message is complete bullsh*t like usual.
Anybody can do research and dimiss completely your usual amount of bigotry and lies.
I'm not prejudiced like you but fair and I know unless you, what I'm speaking about because I'm professional.
 

Software glitches leave Navy Smart Ship dead in the water

"The ship had to be towed into the Naval base at Norfolk, Va., because a  database overflow caused its propulsion system to fail, according to  Anthony DiGiorgio, a civilian engineer with the Atlantic Fleet Technical  Support Center in Norfolk. "
"The Yorktown has been towed into port several times because of the  systems failures, he said. "
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

Herald12345       8/7/2009 12:42:59 PM

Paveway afterbody uses a US base fuse to detonate the fill in the bomb body blank, amateur.

 

What the hell is the "fill in the bomb body blank"? Could you at least try to speak English?

Explosive, poster.

And as you're an "expert", you should know that different types of fuze can be fitted to the bomb used on a Paveway kit. For example, the UK uses the multi-function bomb fuze (MFBF) 947 or 960 on their PWII kit.

Sure, but their fises WORK , or doidn't you read where I said that?

Likewise, French air force and Aeronavale have used different fuzes, some the older Matra designs, some US-made bought as an interim solution until their own next generation fuze were available and now this next generation fuze.

You really are not well informed are you?



If you're so well informed, please give us the reference of the US fuze used in French PWII. Obviously it's a FMU-xyz. Shouldn't be too hard for an "expert" like you.

FMU-152 joint programmable or FMU-159 hard target
.
What else? 
 
 
Quote    Reply

Herald12345    Well   8/7/2009 12:57:40 PM

I'm sorry Herald, it was not a DD 51 which was towed to harbor by a software malfunction, but a US Aegis cruiser.

Rest of your message is complete bullsh*t like usual.

Anybody can do research and dimiss completely your usual amount of bigotry and lies.

I'm not prejudiced like you but fair and I know unless you, what I'm speaking about because I'm professional.

 


Software glitches leave Navy Smart Ship dead in the water


"The ship had to be towed into the Naval base at Norfolk, Va., because a  database overflow caused its propulsion system to fail, according to  Anthony DiGiorgio, a civilian engineer with the Atlantic Fleet Technical  Support Center in Norfolk. "

"The Yorktown has been towed into port several times because of the  systems failures, he said. "


 

 

Dug that up? Liar.
 
I often don't use it, but:
 
 

DiGiorgio denies reported statements


Regarding your story on the USS Yorktown [GCN, July 13, Page 1], just for the record:


I did not say that the Yorktown was towed into Norfolk.


Logic does not allow the combination of the words ?self-proclaimed
whistle-blower.? It may sound good, but there is no such thing.


Your reporter seems to have spent his formative years as a reporter at the National
Enquirer. This is based on [his] disregard of what was actually said for the sake of
writing what he wanted to write.


Thanks for introducing me to being quoted. The way you obtained the information and the
way you misused it is beginning to make me think that, maybe, there is validity to the
claim made by the average American redneck that the media is the problem.


Anthony DiGiorgio
Engineer
Atlantic Fleet Technical Support Center
Norfolk, Va.


Editor?s note: GCN stands by its story.
 
 

Smart Ship inquiry a go

  • By Gregory Slabodkin
  • Aug 31, 1998

All new apps must run under NT,
Navy CIO Ann Miller says.





The Navy?s systems chief has begun an investigation into the computer failure that
left the Aegis cruiser USS Yorktown dead in the water for several hours last fall.


Navy chief information officer Ann Miller is conducting a detailed inquiry of the
incident. The Yorktown is the Navy?s test bed for its Smart Ship program, which seeks
to reduce crew workloads and operating costs by using shipboard PC systems running under
Microsoft Windows NT.


On Sept. 21, 1997, the Yorktown experienced what the Navy called ?an engineering
LAN casualty? [GCN, July 13, Page 1]. A systems
administrator fed bad data into the ship?s Remote Database Manager, which caused a
buffer overflow when the software tried to divide by zero. The overflow crashed computers
on the LAN and caused the Yorktown to lose control of its propulsion system, Navy
officials said.


The Navy CIO Office is trying to determine whether the crash was caused by the software
application, NT or some other problem.


?So far, it doesn?t seem like it?s an NT issue but a basic programming
problem,? said deputy CIO Ron Turner, who is in charge of the inquiry.


The Navy?s Pacific and Atlantic fleets in March 1997 selected NT 4.0 as the
standard operating system for the Navy?s Information Technology for the 21st Century
initiative.


Miller recently issued servicewide guidance directing that all new applications must
run on PCs under NT.


?The Navy has demonstrated its continued faith in our products by its recent
announcement that Phase 2 of its Smart Ship program awarded to Litton Integrated Systems
Corp. and the AN/UYQ-70 tactical display workstation contract awarded to Lockheed Martin
Corp. will both be built on Windows NT,? said Edmund Muth, Microsoft?s group
product manager in Redmond, Wash.


Microsoft officials strongly deny that NT caused the Yorktown?s systems to fail.
The responsibility for ensuring ship operations doesn?t rest with the OS but with
Yorktown?s system administrators and software programmers, who should have
safeguarded the application from propagating the errors, company officials said.


The Yorktown?s Standard Monitoring Control System administrator entered zero in
the data field for the Remote Database Manager program, causing the buffer overflow, Navy
officials said. Administrators are now aware of the problem of entering zero in the
database and are trained to bypass a bad data field and change the value if such a problem
occurs again, Navy officials said.


Between July 1995 and June 1997, the Yorktown lost propulsion power to buffer overflows
twice while using the new Smart Ship technology, said Capt. Richard Rushton, commanding
officer of the Yorktown at the time of the failures. But in each incidence the Yorktown
crew knew what caused the failure and quickly restored systems, Rushton said.


Because the ships? new propulsion control system was developed quickly, his
programmers knew there were inherent risks, Rushton said.


?We pushed the envelope and knew that events such as what happened in September of
last year were possible,? he said.


The Yorktown is equipped with two FFG-7 emergency power units in the event of a
propulsion system failure, he said.


NT is essential to future ship system designs such as the Smart Ship program, Rushton
said. The Yorktown uses dual 200-MHz Pentium Pro PCs from Intergraph Corp. of Huntsville,
Ala., to run NT 4.0 over a high-speed, fiber-optic LAN linked to an Intergraph Pentium Pro
server.


?NT was never the cause of any problem on the ship,? Rushton said. ?The
problems were all in programs, database and code within the individual pieces of software
that we were using.?


But some Navy officials are concerned that NT does not have the capability to protect
the network from crashing when applications fail.


?Using Windows NT, which is known to have some failure modes, on a warship is
similar to hoping that luck will be in our favor,? wrote Anthony DiGiorgio, an
engineer with the Atlantic Fleet Technical Support Center, in a June 1998 article titled
?The Smart Ship is Not The Answer.?


The article appeared in the U.S. Naval Institute?s Proceedings magazine and is
posted on the Web at link   n


?It took two days of pierside maintenance to resolve the [Yorktown] problem, and
there have been similar failures in the past when the ship has had to be towed into
port,? DiGiorgio noted.


Rushton denied that the Yorktown ever had to be towed into port; it returned to port
using emergency power in the September incident, he said.


?The Yorktown should not be held to the standard of a production-level system
because the data-field safeguards found in production-level systems were not installed in
the Yorktown intentionally,? Rushton said.


?Those were things we accepted and we did what I consider to be a reasonable risk
analysis,? Rushton said. ?If it appeared to compromise the safety of the crew,
we didn?t do it.?
 
 
 

It wasn't able to stand by it after its chief witness and the NAVY called them and proved them  liars.
 Next time, get your facts straight. Read me loud and clear?
 
Herald
 
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

benellim4       8/7/2009 6:12:14 PM

I'm sorry Herald, it was not a DD 51 which was towed to harbor by a software malfunction, but a US Aegis cruiser.

Rest of your message is complete bullsh*t like usual.

Anybody can do research and dimiss completely your usual amount of bigotry and lies.

I'm not prejudiced like you but fair and I know unless you, what I'm speaking about because I'm professional.

 


Software glitches leave Navy Smart Ship dead in the water


"The ship had to be towed into the Naval base at Norfolk, Va., because a  database overflow caused its propulsion system to fail, according to  Anthony DiGiorgio, a civilian engineer with the Atlantic Fleet Technical  Support Center in Norfolk. "

"The Yorktown has been towed into port several times because of the  systems failures, he said. "


 

 

Well you may be professional, but you're not A professional. You know how I can tell? Because you missed the important part of this story.
 
Let's start with the fact that she was never towed to port. She had a database error that caused her to lose propulsion for 2 hours and 45 minutes. Anthony DiGeogio also said that the reporter for GCN altered his statement. The Commanding Officer of the ship and the Atlantic Fleet also denied the report. In fact, if it had been towed back, I would have heard about it. A cruiser getting towed into port does not stay a secret on the world's largest naval base.
 
USS Yorktown was an experimental ship, Aegis cruiser or no. Yep, an experimental ship. We had so many Aegis cruiser that were better than CG-47 thru 51, that we decided to take one of them (eventually we took two of them) and installed experimental machinery controls on them. That same software allowed Yorktown to get underway with no one on the bridge and go to sea (a three hour transit from NAVSTA Norfolk to sea) with only inputs from a computer in the Commanding Officer's cabin. 
 

To put this in perspective, the CG-47 thru 51 flight of ships was less capable in air defense than the CG-52 (and on) and the DDG-51 class. She was still more capable in air defense than any other ship in the world at the time, and still we used it for experimentation. In fact, the USS YORKTOWN did not deploy, except to do counter-narcotics operations, until 2004. So for 8 years, 1996 when the "smart ship" system was installed, until 2004, we didn't even use it as an operational deployer.
 
A country that can take an air defense platform that is more capable than anything the world has, and can afford to install an experimental system in it and not deploy it, is simply amazing.
 
Quote    Reply

Rufus       8/8/2009 2:56:58 AM
"CdG can deliver 100 to 110 Rafale sorties per day at maximum and assuming 70 are for strike it means we can deliver 660 precision guided bomb per day or almost 5000 in a week."
 
Oh there is no question that if you really want to pound something from the sea an aircraft carrier is the way to go. 
 
The problem is that with a single carrier France's capability is generally either way too much, or way too little. 
 
It is overkill for small scale police actions... a handful of harriers would be more than sufficient for that... but it is far too little to deal with a major flare-up somewhere.  
 
(Plus your bomb delivery numbers are incredibly optimistic. 70 strike sorties delivering 660 precision guided bombs? LOL ) 
 
Quote    Reply

gf0012-aust       8/8/2009 3:28:04 AM
To put this in perspective, the CG-47 thru 51 flight of ships was less capable in air defense than the CG-52 (and on) and the DDG-51 class. 
the Block 1 Ticos were offered to RAN a few years back.  They were knocked back due to issues of age, and capability and the fact that they had basically ended up as mules.  They certainly weren't as capable as the later builds in class
 
Quote    Reply

french stratege       8/8/2009 4:36:08 AM
Rufus
I wrote and corrected before my message, indeed I wrote:
Sorry I forgot to correct my message
CdG can deliver 100 to 110 Rafale sorties per day at maximum and assuming 70 are for strike it means we can deliver 420 stand off precision guided bomb per day like AASM (50 km range) , or almost 3000 in a week.Or with all sorties to strike, 660  or almost 5000 in a week.
 
Standard load of a Rafale is 6 to 8 AASM.We have 2 pilots per Rafale and we can assume 2 to 3 sorties per day per pilots.
Limiting number of a carrier is due to its landing track and movement on the bridge.Normally CdG is scheduled for 100 sorties per days officially but with 3 squadrons we can assume a number up to 150 in a surge.US carriers have reached 200 sorties per days but they can sustain them more since they have more planes and pilots.
 
You wrote:
The problem is that with a single carrier France's capability is generally either way too much, or way too little. 
It is overkill for small scale police actions... a handful of harriers would be more than sufficient for that... but it is far too little to deal with a major flare-up somewhere.
An handfull of Harrier is good for a minor operation assuming no air decent air threat.They are also short range which means the carrier has to get close to the coast.
Rafale M is today a first class BVR air defense fighter with only really F22 better.
Rafale M can cope with any SU30 of the latest generation like only India have and easily dominate a standard export Mig 29 on a third world country.
Rafale M is buddy refueled and accept also any common stock of air force and navy weapons lile Mica, AASM, Laser guided bomb (soon) , SCALP, AM39 or nuclear hypersonic ASMP-A with 500 km range and 300 Kt.
Now we have 3 E2C which are force multipliers with datalink.
On ennemies:
Very few air forces have SU30 MKI equivalent in numbers, with AWACs to support them, and a decent number of air refuelers.Very few air forces can mount long range massive strikes with an hundred fighters with antiships missiles.Very few air forces have NATO level pilots with sufficient spares to sustain hing rate sorties numbers.
Now take also in account that France have ground air bases around the world on french territories to complement CdG
 
How much forces can cope with it outside NATO and get air superiority agaisnt CdG?
 
Russia have SSN in numbers so we would never risk CdG in northern Atlantic.But we don't need it to strike Russia.
CdG power alone excess any air force in central and south America including Brasil
CdG power alone excess any air force in Africa except Algeria and Egypt but we are in range for our ground based air force
In Mediterranean, CdG alone excess Syrian air force for air combat power assuming our ground based air force do the air to gorund job (Syria is far away and need 3 hours of flight with air refueling from Corsica)
 
In Indian Ocean CdG alone excess all countries in air superiority power including Iran and Pakistan, except Saudi Arabia and UAE (french allies), India , Singapore and Australia (french allies).
Against Iran and Pakistan we can ADD our ground based air force either based in Djibouti (with air refueling) or even UAE (with agreement of UAE) or even in Mayotte (while limited to very long range ground based Rafale strikes with SCALPS or on their coast.
Against Iran or Pakistan we can send of their inside capital city some SCALPS or ASMP or pound their coast with hundreds or thousands AASM, 100 or 200 miles inside.Their navies would be 100% destroyed.
 
In Pacific CdG power excess all countries in air superiority power  except South Korea, Japan, China, Taiwan.
Only China is seen as a potential threat to France (or North Korea we could hit easily by air or even nuke).
It would be mad to come close to Chinese coast.
However in blue sea well behind Taiwan France can expect to destroy any Chinese surface ship between Philippino and Japan, or to launch successfully SCALP on China 2000 km away, and we have 600 of them.If China have SSK in numbers, SSK are a threat only close to China.Chinese SSN could be a threat if they have more and better than France which is not the case.We can also threatened all their attempt to settle on Parcaels Islands or destroy any Chinese surface force in the area. We can help Vietnam or south Asian countries agaisnt China.
 
Do you think that two Invicible class with 20 Harrier GR9 (no radar) come even close in capabilities?
CdG add to our airforce capabilities to maintain a permanent air superority shield in front of those country during weeks.
It allow our navy to destroy any surface fleet of any country in blue sea except USA, and only Russia and UK could threaten seriously our battle group far away of their coast and worldwide due to their SSN strenght.
It allows SCALP strike on China or even India (which have a better tech on their planes but more limited numbers).
 
Considering our actual ennemies worldwide, and our geographical situation, it gives France second projection power in world and the only global reach one after USA.The only problem is that our capability can be fielded without notice only 70% of the time since we have only one.If not available, we have to wait weeks or months before striking.
 
A second carrier would allow us 100% avaibility time and reduce vulnerability to SSN and SSK of our strike group.
 
Moreover CdG rafales are nuke capable and we have a stockpile of 60 ASMP with 300 kt warhead (but able to low yield) currently.60 ASMP can also destroy sixty airbases or harbors or maybe 20 armored divisions, or a foreign leadership traveling by car in its country or in a bunker.
 
Which means, we can deliver nuke strike everywhere in the world even on ground armies deployed on the field, or moving forces, while keeping our second strike strategic deterrent in reserve with 300 nukes, to deter or escalate.
Consider that India can not reach France with nukes and China has only few ICBM able to reach France.
While France can deliver all of its 350 warheads on them.
We could easily strike China with few nukes.If they dare to retaliate on France, we have twenty time more nukes to send them.
CdG is not the US massive naval carrier force wich allow sustained operation even vs China.But still CdG is the only real one outside USA.
If China defy us in Africa or Indian Ocean by hitting or supporting a country which kill some french, we can retaliate and hit them conventionaly on their soil or make their navy to pay a quite heavy price and disturb their sea line to export goods or import oil leading to internal China crisis.
Our forces are not big, granted.But they are COHERENT and global reach.
Cdg is the global link between conventional special action force and nuclear strike.
Cdg plus 10 capable nuclear subs plus 350 nukes, plus 600 Scalps (800 soon), are not a force to dismiss for anybody.Only USA can joke with that.Others, not.
 
 
 
 
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Herald12345    What is the ammo and fuel bunkerage on the Chuckles de Gaulle again?   8/8/2009 6:19:40 AM
3000 sorties per week huh? On a 28 aircraft tactical air wing and with an average of 4 tonnes of fuel and stores?
 
Lets convert some of that into usable units i.e. seconds. @ 605,000 seconds (week)/3000 (optempo total) sorties=  cat-shot every 201 seconds all around the clock.
 
Let me see, that is one catapult shot every 3 minutes and 21 seconds in lay English. Since we assume a maximum of 34 fixed wing ( Source. ) and a standard USN level of deck performance that whole group can get aloft in about  1200 seconds actual, and then fly to the target 3600 seconds and return at 1800 seconds actual, then rearm 1800 seconds and then sortie again., so the sortie cycle is actually about  2.3 hours for a maximum alpha  at optimum range. 
 
So in theory, the CdG could launch 340 sorties a day (10 complete cycles)........x 7=2380. 
 
Nope. No matter how hard I try, I cannot make 2380 be anything but less than 3000.
 
Lie one disposed. Lets try for that sustained tempo based on stores. An aircraft like the Etendard or the Sqyall will om average use about four tonnes of stores and load per sortie: so we have to have 9500 tonnes of fuel and ammunition aboard the Chuckles.
 
Only one problem.........
 
 
Munitions Storage

Specifications

Power Plant 2 Nuclear Power Plants;
Two propellers with 4 blades each, 80,000 ch (56,000 kW);
Electric power: 21,400 kW
Length, overall 262 meters
Flight Deck Width 65 meters
Total Height 75 meters
Displacement 35,500 tons
40,600 tons (full load)
Speed 27 knots
Aircraft 35-40
Aircraft Elevators 2
Catapults 2
Runway Floor Space 12,000 m²
Hangar Area Floor Space 4,600 m²
Crew Ship's Company: 1,950
Armament 2 Aster 15 missile systems (16 each)
2 Sadral systems (6 each)
8 Giat 20 F2
Combat Systems 2 Raccal-Decca
1 DRBJ 11 B
1 DRBV 26 D
1 DRBV 15 C
1 Arabel
1 Vampir DIBV 1 system
2 DIBC 2A (Vigy 105) systems

1 ARBR 21 radar detector
2 ARBB 33 jammers
4 Sagaie decoy-launchers
SLAT system
SAIGON system
SENIT 8 system
TACAN : VRBP-20A

Launch Rate 1 aircraft/30 seconds
550 tons
Fuel Storage 3,400 tons
Endurance 45 days
 
Whoops!
 
I think I caught me one big fat one this time.^1
 
^1 And you know this is about the third time I ran these numbers on this lie told by this poster?
 
Herald   
 
 
 
 
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