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Subject: Mough
GOP    3/9/2007 11:08:31 PM
Mough, I remember a while back in a post you mentioned that you knew a SEAL who completed the SEAL pipeline while having Asthma (obviously not waiverable). Any info on how he did it? See, heres the thing, It's very possible that my medical condition is not waiverable and not 'enterable' (due to the MEPS losers), and I still plan on pursuing my dreams. I have a rough plan in place based around deceiving the MEPS b@stards, I could share that if anyone is interested (not that anyone is). So any info on how your friend made it into the pipeline would be awesome. Feel free to add in any motivational stories aswell lol, as this is sort of a tough time for me. I just want my shot at BUD/S, I'm willing to go through h3ll just to get my chance at the pipeline, so any info/advice would help.
 
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Horsesoldier       3/10/2007 7:27:50 AM

I'm guessing, judging by people I know who've skated elsewhere in the military with health issues, it all boils down to willpower and luck.  Willpower to push through any limitations your medical situation may impose.  Luck that you don't get caught, or if you get caught it's by a standup medic/PA/doc/etc who weighs your willpower and drive versus your health issue and keeps his findings to himself (those guys don't get jobs at MEPS, by the way . . .).
 
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GOP       3/12/2007 12:40:52 AM

I'm guessing, judging by people I know who've skated elsewhere in the military with health issues, it all boils down to willpower and luck.  Willpower to push through any limitations your medical situation may impose.  Luck that you don't get caught, or if you get caught it's by a standup medic/PA/doc/etc who weighs your willpower and drive versus your health issue and keeps his findings to himself (those guys don't get jobs at MEPS, by the way . . .).



Yeah, I think you are right. I have the willpower, the medical condition isn't an issue really, but I do take meds for it (but they aren't mandatory or anything). The luck is what could get me...those MEPS docs have been described to me as 'rats' and 'hounds', like they sniff out any medical problems. I've heard conflicting reports on whether or not they check medical records. Basically, it's like this. One poster on Navyseals.com said he was kicked out of the Navy because he lied to the MEPS guys about some surgeries and a temporary (as in, he grew out of it after 7th grade) case of ADD, and during the security clearance thing run by the FBI, they found all of this info in his medical records and kicked him out of BUD/S for lying ("Integrity issues"). Now, I've talked to a former SEAL online who told a bunch of us that he had "All kinds of sh*t wrong with him, heart problems and sh*t, prior surgeries and other bullsh*t...and he didn't tell the Navy and they never found out. They'll tell you in bootcamp about a grace period to come clean about lies and sh*t, and that the FBI will find out, but it's a huge croc of horsesh*t" (almost a direct quote, he loved the "sh*t" word lol).  I wish I knew the SEALs name, he's deployed now and obviously can't post on the BUD/S Prep website, but when he starts posting again I'm going to send him an e-mail and see if I can call him or something (I'll get the owner of the website to verify I'm not a crook or whatever if I need to).
 
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Horsesoldier       3/12/2007 12:58:12 PM

Yeah, I think you are right. I have the willpower, the medical condition isn't an issue really, but I do take meds for it (but they aren't mandatory or anything). The luck is what could get me...those MEPS docs have been described to me as 'rats' and 'hounds', like they sniff out any medical problems. I've heard conflicting reports on whether or not they check medical records. Basically, it's like this. One poster on Navyseals.com said he was kicked out of the Navy because he lied to the MEPS guys about some surgeries and a temporary (as in, he grew out of it after 7th grade) case of ADD, and during the security clearance thing run by the FBI, they found all of this info in his medical records and kicked him out of BUD/S for lying ("Integrity issues"). Now, I've talked to a former SEAL online who told a bunch of us that he had "All kinds of sh*t wrong with him, heart problems and sh*t, prior surgeries and other bullsh*t...and he didn't tell the Navy and they never found out. They'll tell you in bootcamp about a grace period to come clean about lies and sh*t, and that the FBI will find out, but it's a huge croc of horsesh*t" (almost a direct quote, he loved the "sh*t" word lol).  I wish I knew the SEALs name, he's deployed now and obviously can't post on the BUD/S Prep website, but when he starts posting again I'm going to send him an e-mail and see if I can call him or something (I'll get the owner of the website to verify I'm not a crook or whatever if I need to).

When I came through MEPS, there was no civilian medical records review for enlisting.  If you report some existing condition that the docs want further information on, I would guess you might be asked to provide civilian medical records as part of the waiver process (haven't been there and done that, so might be wrong).
 
When getting a security clearance, the only medical stuff they are concerned with (and allowed to inquire about) are mental health issues that might make you a security risk for one reason or another.  Even then, the investigators are very limited in what they can ask and see (or at least the form that was in my clearance packet pertaining to medical stuff spelled out very specific limits to what they were interested in and authorized to investigate), to keep them in line with the mountain of federal laws no covering medical history and right to privacy, etc.  I'm not an expert, but I think as long as your medical history does not involve things like clinical depression and other psychiatric drama, your security clearance background check should not be complicated by medical history.
 
I'd be inclined to think the second SEAL you quoted is probably the more correct of the two.  Hard to tell on the first guy's story -- maybe he was unlucky, or maybe there was more drama there than he reported.  I guess the ADD diagnoses might have been the issue?  My understanding is that if you were ever prescribed Ritalin, Adderol, etc, the folks at MEPS take a major interest in that, so maybe it matters to the security background check guys as well.
 
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BadNews       3/12/2007 1:29:27 PM




I'm guessing, judging by people I know who've skated elsewhere in the military with health issues, it all boils down to willpower and luck.  Willpower to push through any limitations your medical situation may impose.  Luck that you don't get caught, or if you get caught it's by a standup medic/PA/doc/etc who weighs your willpower and drive versus your health issue and keeps his findings to himself (those guys don't get jobs at MEPS, by the way . . .).





Yeah, I think you are right. I have the willpower, the medical condition isn't an issue really, but I do take meds for it (but they aren't mandatory or anything). The luck is what could get me...those MEPS docs have been described to me as 'rats' and 'hounds', like they sniff out any medical problems. I've heard conflicting reports on whether or not they check medical records. Basically, it's like this. One poster on Navyseals.com said he was kicked out of the Navy because he lied to the MEPS guys about some surgeries and a temporary (as in, he grew out of it after 7th grade) case of ADD, and during the security clearance thing run by the FBI, they found all of this info in his medical records and kicked him out of BUD/S for lying ("Integrity issues"). Now, I've talked to a former SEAL online who told a bunch of us that he had "All kinds of sh*t wrong with him, heart problems and sh*t, prior surgeries and other bullsh*t...and he didn't tell the Navy and they never found out. They'll tell you in bootcamp about a grace period to come clean about lies and sh*t, and that the FBI will find out, but it's a huge croc of horsesh*t" (almost a direct quote, he loved the "sh*t" word lol).  I wish I knew the SEALs name, he's deployed now and obviously can't post on the BUD/S Prep website, but when he starts posting again I'm going to send him an e-mail and see if I can call him or something (I'll get the owner of the website to verify I'm not a crook or whatever if I need to).


I have never heard of a medical issue coming to light through an FBI or DIA background investigation ever. I have heard of several criminal and severe financial issues causing security clearanceds to be denied. I thing it would be safe to say, the one poster was hiding the real reason.

 
 
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USN-MID       3/13/2007 12:26:35 AM
If you've got to take medications for it, I'd bet that's pretty much a no-go for SOF in general.
 
Question is...can you "fix" it. I had a medical issue as well, and the doctors considered temporarily putting me on meds, but it was something correctable, so I just took time off to fix it.
 
As for deceiving MEPS...it's a dangerous call. If it's something that COULD F you up later on, you're putting yourself and others at risk. Even if it just hampers your performance without killing you, it may lead to you getting pulled, reevaluated, and coming back up in a closer diagnosis.
The story about the SEAL who "had" asthma probably means he was diagnosed with asthma in the past. Happens to a lot of people, and many grow out of it and it never bothers them again. Obviously he did not "have" asthma in BUD/S or he would probably have been booted for medical reasons.
 
Point is...you don't have to tell MEPS everything. Nobody tells them about the bloody nose they got last week. But they WILL put you through a very comprehensive medical exam later in your career, more rigorous than the "does he have a pulse" exam they do at MEPS. And say you signed the contract...you may get DQd from SEALs and end up going back into the fleet without a rate running the floor buffer. Something DQ for SEALs is not necessarily general service DQ. Hell you might end up a yeoman. Just something to think about.
 
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GOP       3/13/2007 12:48:31 AM

If you've got to take medications for it, I'd bet that's pretty much a no-go for SOF in general.

 

Question is...can you "fix" it. I had a medical issue as well, and the doctors considered temporarily putting me on meds, but it was something correctable, so I just took time off to fix it.

 

As for deceiving MEPS...it's a dangerous call. If it's something that COULD F you up later on, you're putting yourself and others at risk. Even if it just hampers your performance without killing you, it may lead to you getting pulled, reevaluated, and coming back up in a closer diagnosis.

The story about the SEAL who "had" asthma probably means he was diagnosed with asthma in the past. Happens to a lot of people, and many grow out of it and it never bothers them again. Obviously he did not "have" asthma in BUD/S or he would probably have been booted for medical reasons.

 

Point is...you don't have to tell MEPS everything. Nobody tells them about the bloody nose they got last week. But they WILL put you through a very comprehensive medical exam later in your career, more rigorous than the "does he have a pulse" exam they do at MEPS. And say you signed the contract...you may get DQd from SEALs and end up going back into the fleet without a rate running the floor buffer. Something DQ for SEALs is not necessarily general service DQ. Hell you might end up a yeoman. Just something to think about.


Yeah, I may be kidding myself. It's just a risk I'll have to take, and if it doesn't work out, then there are really some awesome options in law enforcement worth looking at.
 
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longrifle       3/13/2007 12:49:39 AM
GOP,

I don't know much about the Navy, but from what USN-MID wrote it sounds to me like getting rated in something before going to BUDS is the way to go.  At least as a corpsman you can walk with a Marine Corps rifle platoon if something happened at BUDS. 

 
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USN-MID       3/13/2007 2:57:54 AM
OK, but you also have to consider how an involuntary separation/less than honorable discharge will affect your applications for law enforcement.
Because that is part of the max sentence associated with that, and they will warn you about it in detail at the start at MEPS.
 
Seriously, MANY conditions are waiverable, as long as they are asymptomatic. They generally take a very "common sense" policy on such issues. If you can hack it, you should be good to go.
You said it's not an issue, and the meds are voluntary. If you can get off the medications(obvious concern being you can't take meds in the field for starters) and prove you are still perfectly functional without them, you will probably be able to fight through it.
 
If your doctor, or a specialist in the relevant field tells you you're fit to go scuba diving, skydiving, and complete a triathlon(assuming you're in good enough shape of course), there's no friggin reason you'd be medically unfit to go through BUDS. If you want to be sure, check this:
If your condition is waiverable by aviation medical standards, it is very likely waiverable for SOF as well.
 
I'd also think about going to a doctor just to get a typical physical(vital signs, blood/urine tests, sensory tests). That's what they do at MEPS...if he/she sees nothing of concern, neither will MEPS...it's the same tests, just that MEPS does it cattle style and with longer waiting room times.  
 
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GOP       3/13/2007 1:21:39 PM

OK, but you also have to consider how an involuntary separation/less than honorable discharge will affect your applications for law enforcement.

Because that is part of the max sentence associated with that, and they will warn you about it in detail at the start at MEPS.

 

Seriously, MANY conditions are waiverable, as long as they are asymptomatic. They generally take a very "common sense" policy on such issues. If you can hack it, you should be good to go.

You said it's not an issue, and the meds are voluntary. If you can get off the medications(obvious concern being you can't take meds in the field for starters) and prove you are still perfectly functional without them, you will probably be able to fight through it.

 

If your doctor, or a specialist in the relevant field tells you you're fit to go scuba diving, skydiving, and complete a triathlon(assuming you're in good enough shape of course), there's no friggin reason you'd be medically unfit to go through BUDS. If you want to be sure, check this:

http://www.nomi.med.navy.mil/NAMI/WaiverGuideTopics/index.htm
" href_cetemp=">http://www.nomi.med.navy.mil/NAMI/WaiverGuideTopics/index.htm
">link
If your condition is waiverable by aviation medical standards, it is very likely waiverable for SOF as well.

 

I'd also think about going to a doctor just to get a typical physical(vital signs, blood/urine tests, sensory tests). That's what they do at MEPS...if he/she sees nothing of concern, neither will MEPS...it's the same tests, just that MEPS does it cattle style and with longer waiting room times.  


My doc tells me I'm in excellent shape, and has no problem whatsoever with me doing any sports. I believe you train in MMA, and so do I, and it can be very high intensity...so the Doc has no problem with it.
 
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BadNews       3/13/2007 4:08:44 PM




OK, but you also have to consider how an involuntary separation/less than honorable discharge will affect your applications for law enforcement.



Because that is part of the max sentence associated with that, and they will warn you about it in detail at the start at MEPS.



 



Seriously, MANY conditions are waiverable, as long as they are asymptomatic. They generally take a very "common sense" policy on such issues. If you can hack it, you should be good to go.



You said it's not an issue, and the meds are voluntary. If you can get off the medications(obvious concern being you can't take meds in the field for starters) and prove you are still perfectly functional without them, you will probably be able to fight through it.



 



If your doctor, or a specialist in the relevant field tells you you're fit to go scuba diving, skydiving, and complete a triathlon(assuming you're in good enough shape of course), there's no friggin reason you'd be medically unfit to go through BUDS. If you want to be sure, check this:



http://www.nomi.med.navy.mil/NAMI/WaiverGuideTopics/index.htm
" target="_blank">link
" href_cetemp="http://www.nomi.med.navy.mil/NAMI/WaiverGuideTopics/index.htm
" target=_blank href_cetemp=">http://www.nomi.med.navy.mil/NAMI/WaiverGuideTopics/index.htm
">link
">link

If your condition is waiverable by aviation medical standards, it is very likely waiverable for SOF as well.



 



I'd also think about going to a doctor just to get a typical physical(vital signs, blood/urine tests, sensory tests). That's what they do at MEPS...if he/she sees nothing of concern, neither will MEPS...it's the same tests, just that MEPS does it cattle style and with longer waiting room times.  




My doc tells me I'm in excellent shape, and has no problem whatsoever with me doing any sports. I believe you train in MMA, and so do I, and it can be very high intensity...so the Doc has no problem with it.


Well I would say this, if you take MEDS, DO NOT LIE, that will eventually come back to hit you. If it is something that perhaps your doctor can find an alternative for, try that first
 
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