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Subject: Project Bluelight/Bluelight Battalion?
Renegade1A    6/29/2006 6:23:27 PM
Fifteen years ago I met a former SF Soldier that had mentioned having been a member of Bluelight. For some reason the name has always stuck in my head. Anyway, I am currently a student in the American Military University's Intelligence Studies program and I'm working on a paper on count-terrorism units. It is my understanding, through what I was told back in the early '90s and the EXTREMELY limited information I've been able to gather online about Bluelight that it was either in competition with Delta or the forerunner of it for assignment as the US's premiere CT mission. I believe they were the interim team as well until Delta becam operational. Can anyone give further insight as to the history of Bluelight or info on where I can go to find out?
 
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Horsesoldier    RE:Project Bluelight/Bluelight Battalion?   6/29/2006 8:20:59 PM
Consider all the following sentences to start with "I think" or "I heard" . . . Blue Light was more a competitor to Delta than a forerunner, though it may have preceded Delta by a modest amount of time (months, not years, I'd think, but not sure). It was never declared operational, and the slightly faster formation time may have been that it was formed by tasking SF personnel rather than Delta's SAS-type selection process. Went away after Delta got the nod to do the national-asset CT mission. All that said, I would also note that some, perhaps all, personnel from Blue Light merged into Delta very early on in Delta's history, probably immediately before or after it got the official nod to be the go-to unit for CT. I don't know of any good sources for history on Blue Light, beyond passing references here and there in books about Delta or other unrelated or somewhat related topics.
 
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GOP    RE:Project Bluelight/Bluelight Battalion?   6/29/2006 11:56:15 PM
Horsesoldier is correct, from everything I have read (not much other than what is in Charles Beckwith's book on Delta and a few other small pieces of info from other books). As far as your paper, I think we would all agree (especially Horsesoldier), that DEVGRU is by far the most effective CT unit on planet earth. I would use words like "Unbelievable", "Awesome", and "Top Notch" when describing DEVGRU and SEALs in general... :)
 
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Schackleford    RE:Project Bluelight/Bluelight Battalion?   6/30/2006 3:13:47 AM
I seem to remember (don't ask me how) that Blue Light was formed in opposition to the tactics and principles of Delta Force, by an officer with longstanding rivalries with Charles Beckwidth, Delta Force's Godfather.
 
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Carl S    RE:Project Bluelight/Bluelight Battalion?   7/2/2006 4:51:42 PM
My take is Blue Light was a temp organization, formed from Special Forces. Its sole role was to provide a temporary capabiity while the much more elaboarate structure of Delta force was stood up. Perhaps it commader or some other leader hoped to make it more than that? Changing the subject...A couple times I've read brief items on the organization of Delta force. Each gave differing proportions, but both commonly described the intelgence group as the largest in manpower of Delta. Perhaps exceeding 50% of the aggregate manpower. Can anyone verify this?
 
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SteelGear    RE:Project Bluelight/Bluelight Battalion?   7/4/2006 9:25:16 PM
--As far as your paper, I think we would all agree (especially Horsesoldier), that DEVGRU is by far the most effective CT unit on planet earth. I would use words like "Unbelievable", "Awesome", and "Top Notch" when describing DEVGRU and SEALs in general...-- Your bias towards the 'Superiority' of the USN SEALs is nothing short of amazing.
 
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mough    RE:Project Bluelight/Bluelight Battalion?   7/5/2006 11:02:43 AM
Your bias towards the 'Superiority' of the USN SEALs is nothing short of amazing.<< he was kidding, that's why the :)< was in the post
 
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Maverick    RE:Blue Light Issues: Real Talk   7/7/2006 3:46:07 PM
Renegade 1A I would caution you stop your search for blue light intel. Some of the courses in your curriculum deals specifically with how bad they have been treated in the past, however, they persevered as only the great ones can. Some strap hanger whores ( a Beckwithian term ) thought they were doing innovative work by devising a system that would manage the mortality rate of blue light soldiers after their tours of duty were over, as many considered them extremely dangerous. That gutless era has been replaced by the current era that recognizes the fact that America needs every blue light type of soldier they can muster in addition to the D types as well.
 
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GOP    RE:Blue Light Issues: Real Talk   7/7/2006 9:50:37 PM
>> would caution you stop your search for blue light intel. Some of the courses in your curriculum deals specifically with how bad they have been treated in the past, however, they persevered as only the great ones can. Some strap hanger whores ( a Beckwithian term ) thought they were doing innovative work by devising a system that would manage the mortality rate of blue light soldiers after their tours of duty were over, as many considered them extremely dangerous. That gutless era has been replaced by the current era that recognizes the fact that America needs every blue light type of soldier they can muster in addition to the D types as well.<< Can anyone make out what Braddock is saying, or what relevance this has to do with the original bluelight bn? All I really understand is "I would caution you to stop your search for blue light intel" (why exactly?)
 
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Horsesoldier    RE:Blue Light Issues: Real Talk   7/8/2006 4:55:38 PM
>>Can anyone make out what Braddock is saying, or what relevance this has to do with the original bluelight bn? All I really understand is "I would caution you to stop your search for blue light intel" (why exactly?) << I'm guessing it's because Braddock is a lunatic, even when he calls himself "Maverick." But at least he did not say anyone was trying to "ascertain" anything, so maybe he's making progress.
 
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longrifle    RE:Blue Light Issues: Real Talk   7/8/2006 6:40:47 PM
>>Some strap hanger whores.....<< Kettle, this is pot, over.
 
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Renegade1A    RE:Blue Light Issues: Real Talk   7/17/2006 5:06:38 PM
Blue Light is not part of the curriculum, CT units in general are. I met a former Blue Light operator about 15 years ago (I was dating his daughter at the time). This is where my interest in Blue Light extends from. I just feel that in a college level course, we should be examining the true roots of American CT, this lies with Blue Light. Unfortunately, the only published information out there seems to be from the Delta point of view (COL Beckwith/CSM Haney), and extremely limited in scope.
 
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Old Grunt    RE:Blue Light Issues: Real Talk   7/20/2006 8:30:01 AM
Sorry to weigh in so late. From what I remember from the pre-phase history classes, the "light" teams grew out of the Mike Force concept. From my team time I remember the "light" missions where little to no notice missions that had to be executed on a very short time line. "Green Light" missions were overt (e.g. the Jessica Lynch rescue) and "Blue Light" missions were covert (e.g. the Zarqawi hit). There were no "teams" per se as the best qualified for the mission were attached as needed. A "Blue Light" mission was often the result of the completion of one of our Strat Recon missions. It is very likely that a standing "Blue Light" team came into being as the likelyhood of responding to a terrorist event become more of a reality. It would be logical progression for it to evolve into a dedicated CT/CI unit.
 
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3rd Force       2/12/2009 6:49:44 AM
    In the early 80's, word came down that volunteers were being picked for a new multi-branch force that was looking for different qualities in each member. Many of us were thinking in those days that the president was finally going to rescue POW's in Vietnam. We were pretty scared and gung ho at the same time. Interviews were conducted, FBI doing backgrounds, talking to family,friends and neighbors at the same time. I spoke several languages at the time including Vietnamese,Japanese,Thai. I was an Army brat, growing up w/ SF type friends of my dad's.
    To make a long story short, one General had the idea of taking the best men from each branch of service, a battilion size group and training them together under one command called Blue Light Delta. Another General,as I would find out years later,had this Col. Beckwith who had trained with the SAS. He and this General felt pretty strongly that it should be a three year selection process to have the right men and the right training. It makes sense now after all these years but it didn't then.It could have swung either way.Col.Beckwith eventually got his wish. My understand in those days is that the Delta Force that Beckwith put together failed badly on their very first mission. I wasn't involved and word was that we were lucky we weren't. Us Marines weren't invited to this other Blue Light Delta and we didn't know at that time it was going to be called Delta Force. Once you are out of the loop,you were really out of the loop.
     As far as research on this matter, I really don't you are going to find any. Yes, it was a formed secret unit but not really an offical unit.Lots of classes,mock training,live fire training but suddenly everyone was re-assigned or sent back to their units. That's all the insight that I could offer to this thread. Great idea but no heart behind it I guess.
    I've been reading a lot of stuff here. Some of it I can agree with and some I have no personal knowledge of. It makes for interesting reading though.
     
 
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bob the brit       2/12/2009 7:23:16 PM

    In the early 80's, word came down that volunteers were being picked for a new multi-branch force that was looking for different qualities in each member. Many of us were thinking in those days that the president was finally going to rescue POW's in Vietnam. We were pretty scared and gung ho at the same time. Interviews were conducted, FBI doing backgrounds, talking to family,friends and neighbors at the same time. I spoke several languages at the time including Vietnamese,Japanese,Thai. I was an Army brat, growing up w/ SF type friends of my dad's.

    To make a long story short, one General had the idea of taking the best men from each branch of service, a battilion size group and training them together under one command called Blue Light Delta. Another General,as I would find out years later,had this Col. Beckwith who had trained with the SAS. He and this General felt pretty strongly that it should be a three year selection process to have the right men and the right training. It makes sense now after all these years but it didn't then.It could have swung either way.Col.Beckwith eventually got his wish. My understand in those days is that the Delta Force that Beckwith put together failed badly on their very first mission. I wasn't involved and word was that we were lucky we weren't. Us Marines weren't invited to this other Blue Light Delta and we didn't know at that time it was going to be called Delta Force. Once you are out of the loop,you were really out of the loop.

     As far as research on this matter, I really don't you are going to find any. Yes, it was a formed secret unit but not really an offical unit.Lots of classes,mock training,live fire training but suddenly everyone was re-assigned or sent back to their units. That's all the insight that I could offer to this thread. Great idea but no heart behind it I guess.

    I've been reading a lot of stuff here. Some of it I can agree with and some I have no personal knowledge of. It makes for interesting reading though.

     
This thread's quite old hat now my friend, nout more's come into the public forum on the matter, and i'm not one to spilleth the beans [not that it's very interesting]. as 'secret' as 'bluelight' remains, it's rather a boring story.
 
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ranger77    Bluelight vs Delta   10/25/2009 4:46:49 PM
I participated in two CT exercises with Delta and Bluelight while assigned to the 2nd Ranger Battalion in the late 1970's.   Both were hostage rescue scenarios with the 2nd Battalion in a support role.  The Delta exercise went without a flaw, whereas the Bluelight team didn't reach the objective in time.  As a result, a Ranger backup team performed actions at the objective.  Delta got the nod, though I don't know if Bluelight's failure on that exercise was the final determining factor.  My understanding is that 5th Group thought they were entitled to the mission.  Bluelight was made up exclusively of 5th Group members, whereas Delta had their selection program underway, which was open to the Army.  Quite a few of the first Delta operators came from the two Ranger Battalions and there existed at that a considerable amount of bad feelings in how SF saw the Rangers.  I hope this helps.
 
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