US attacks Turkey

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icetea RE:US attacks Turkey 12/19/2004 12:09:54 AM

Is their english version? thanks

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Clausewitz RE:The popularity of Metal Storm shows that turks are interlectually not matured 3/28/2005 12:48:51 PM

I learned something about the story: A turkish "hero" destroys Washington with a nuclear warhead what makes Turkey win this war. What a nonsense. The popularity of this book just shows that many turks are not very educated or intelectually matured. Turkey was a close ally of the US in the past 50 years. But times are changing and there is no "thank you". But if Turkey will really invade Kurdistan they will have to pay a big prize. First: No EU-membership (I would be happy to hear that) Second: They would loose on the battlefield to US PGM without a chance. There is no need to invade Turkey. Most people are happy to leave Turkey. Why go in volontarily? They even got no oil or other things of vital interest or of value. Third: Any use of a nuclear warhead against a superpowers capital means that the country would be doomed. After that we could rename Tukey to Kurdistan. But the kurds would have to wait some generations to settle in the nuclear wasteland what was named Turkey before this "hero" conducted mass murder in Washington..

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utku RE:The popularity of Metal Storm shows that turks are interlectually not matured 4/7/2005 2:28:14 AM

Thinking people that are buying the book becouse of incredible advertisement using newspapers and discustions have to agree the possibility of the story is making no sense to me. The book is really stupid. And you are right the end of it was also too funny. In fact many Turks are not congrulating the writers. Wakness of the Turkish Army is exaggerated. if you create conspiracy theory that writers are serving the psycological war against Turkey, It would make more sense then the book itself :) Anyway I can answer other arguments of you about EU or no one would live in turkey, kurds etc. but It have been long time since I have learned explaining facts to people that don't wanna understand is pointless.

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demirturk RE:The popularity of Metal Storm shows that turks are interlectually not matured 4/11/2005 4:31:50 AM

Although Metal Storm is a military sci-fic novel, I believe it is based on proven evidence that US is not our ally at all. I personally think that US has been acting hostile to Turkey. I do not want to go into details but if you bother to check you will find the truth. I know that americans are arrogant but they still continue to surprise me. You can attack a country without any reason but that country can not use nukes. If it does it is called mass murder. I do believe that nukes should be destroyed but I will use it on enemy targets if I have no other choice. Israel declared several times that it would use it's nukes if Israel faces annihilation. And US said nothing against it. You are also too quick to call my country Kurdistan. Good enough but you should first call your beloved america Indiania or Mexico or some other name.Stop talking like idiots. We all know that if US and Turkey fights Us will win. But the price will be high.

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Clausewitz RE:The popularity of Metal Storm shows that turks are interlectually not matured - to demiturk 4/11/2005 5:18:30 AM

First: I am a German (but a US-friendly European) Second: To destroy a city and its population with a nuke means to conduct mass murder.Period!!!!! If someone destroys Ankara with a nuke it would be mass murder too. Third: Your post just demonstrates that turkey does not belong to the west or the EU. Most populations do not want turkey as a member of the EU (especially not the french and german populations - and do not ask the new eastern european nations). So turkey will stay out. It would be good for turkey to be not as nationalistic as you be. You do not have many friends. And what about liberty in your country? You have to pay if you make jokes about Erdokan. Not the behavior of a free country.

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demirturk RE:Why would turkey needs EU?To Clausewitz 4/11/2005 10:43:39 AM

First of all, You are right, it is mass murder to destroy a city with a nuke.But don't you think it is mass murder to destroy a country without any proven reason like US did to Iraq? I would do my best to hurt americans as much as I can by any means if they try to do the same thing to my country. I am not a serial killer, definately not more than a US marine, fighting in Iraq.I also do believe Turkey should not be a member of EU. It is not that Turkey is not civilized enough although we have still a long way to go, but European countries do not like Turkey and Turks. They may have good reasons but then we have reasons to hate them too. We do not have such memories but you guys do. You would forget world wars and your enemies of that time but you would never forget Terrible Turks. So be it.I wish I could talk to you about the facts in Turkey, tell you about the power of perception, share my feelings regarding double standards. I think you would not listen to me but if you would I might even convince you that we are not uneducated, bloodthirsty monsters. 2t you think it is mass murder

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Clausewitz RE: Nobody needs turkey exept the turks 4/11/2005 11:02:58 AM

German and french economic relations to small Switzerland are three/four times the value compared to turkey. Nobody bothers selling some tanks or airplanes to turkey; that would be small business. There is no real oil in turkey or other treasures of the soil the EU needs. Just many poor and bad educated muslims who can work good and hard. But this kind of labor is done by machines today. We got enough european working poor for these jobs. So we don't want turks to steal their jobs as we indeed allowed in the past. No more! Turkey is not wealthy enough to be a market of vital interest. And there is a culture gap too. Most Europeans simply do not want to share their neighborhood with muslims. And they do not want their kids to share teachers and schools with people who even don't speak their language. Just look to the Netherlands! Even in Denmark and France are more than 60% of the people against a turkish membership in the EU. And with ongoing globalisation and all its hardship this attitude will persist or grow. And by the way. Our exports to the broader middle east are done by shipping or airtransport. Nobody needs trucks for this long journey through dangerous countries. We don't need each other after the end of communism. Turkey can buy its weapons/airplanes/cars were it want's. But turkey should leave us alone! And remember vienna!

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Clausewitz RE:Why would turkey needs EU?To Clausewitz - to demirturk 4/11/2005 11:33:16 AM

Nobody said that your are bloodthirsty monsters. Thats truly more than an exaggeration. I would call it even racist. But most turks are uneducated compared to european standards. Thats simply true too. To Irak. The US invasion was the best what could happen to the iraki people. They got rid of Saddam and get billions to rebuild their countrie. And look to the election. Many Irakis see it the same way I do amd more will in the future. Even many left wing critics of the Irak war today see its local and global merits. And please don't argue as stupid as you did when you compared the irak war with the nuclear destruction of a major city. That would mean hundred of thousands or even milions of dead civilians. Thats not what happend in Irak what was a war with very minor collateral damage. The so called "insurgents" - these cowardly thugs - are attacking civilians with car bombs killing and injuring many intentionally (especially shias). Do you want to compare yourself with them? I do not think so. Until now, demirturk, we got a civilized discussion. So I guess in your favor that you are disgusted from the behavior of these thugs too. I admire the honesty of the turks I know (one nice turkish girl is part of my family; my brother in law lived in turkey for some years). I don't like their nationalistic behavior and their often one sided thinking. So I normally do not try to talk about the armenian genocide or the ottoman colonialism. And I really believe it is better for turkey if your country will not be member of the EU. It is better for your identity. And for our identity too. And I really prefer proud turks as you are compared to turks begging for EU-membership. I will only get sentimental if I think for all this nice turkish green eyed pretty girls. But I am a married father of two. So you can keep these girls anyway. Sincerly Clausewitz

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demirturk Thanks for your honesty-To Clausewitz 4/12/2005 12:33:35 AM

It is always fgood to know what others think about yourself. I do know how you guys feel for us and our feelings are not different either. That simply means that we both need time to understand eachother fully. It will take time and concentration that not all Turks are uneducated and huge percentage of youth are receiving same standard of education with their western counterparts. The problem is not education or wealth, it is mentality we both share. We still see eachother as enemies and we are moslems so it is an obstacle in your eyes. You still feel the need to remind of Vienna but I do not feel the same and remind you of Crusades as they are in the past. If people had to remember the past, Japanese would never forgive US. What I mean is time will show us all as it is the ultimate teacher.We are living in the same neighbourhood, we will learn to tolerate eachothers weakness and learn from eachother as well. Once again thank you for your honesty as you have clearly stated what you think of us. Sincerely, DemirTurk

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USSMC RE:Thanks for your honesty-To Clausewitz 4/12/2005 1:10:21 AM

DemirTurk you're a Turkish gentlemen. I'm from Melbourne Australia. There are lots of Turks in my area and they behaive like as if they have a needle stuck in their butt hole. They start trouble, they're too loud, they are the worst people I've ever met and seen. If you could some how tell those fellow Turks of yours to start being a good human being, then you'll be the MAN.......and God bless you.

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Pars Clausewitz and Demirturk 4/22/2005 1:33:25 PM

Although it is funny to read the arguing between an Ultra Nationalist (Demirturk) and a Culturalist which is a new evolution of racism (Clausewitz); do you at least know what you are discussing about. Metal storm is a 3rd rate pulp novel which has a very absurd plot. Only reason that it is popular is good publicity. Such as the triology novel of "Ramses" which was by the way the worst novel that I tried to read. If Turkey will not be accepted into EU it will be because of much serious issues that people do not like each other. Half of Europe do not like the other half. Turkey may not be accepted into EU because of high population, high birth rate, high unemployment. By the way to your knowledge Clausewitz, education level in Turkey is as high as every other last 10 entrance into EU. And much higher than educational level of Turks that live in Germany. That says something about politics of Germany not about Turkey.

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demirturk Re:Pars 4/25/2005 7:16:23 AM

I am glad to read that you have found my posts funny but I am having difficulty to understand how you came up with an idea that I am ultra nationalist. I proudly declare that I am a nationalist and I love my country as most of the other forumers can say about themselves.When you add ''Ultra'' to nationalist it seems that you are accusing me of being a fanatic. I would like to make it clear that I believe the equality of all races and although I happen to be a Turk and proud of it , that does not mean that I refer to other races and nations as lesser beings. And for your information PARS, I have read Metal Storm and I believe it is fun to read but it lacks most of the facts which are needed in such a novel. I do not take it as a guide book. I really believe that Turkey and USA will cross swords in the future for some very serious reasons.But this is for another topic to discuss. Demir Bukulmez

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Pars RE:Demirturk 4/25/2005 7:36:32 AM

I am sorry Demirturk if I was too judgemental. It comes from your "Everybody else hates Turks. We are alone by ourselves in this world" kind of attitude. And especially from the fact that you took that crap book of "Metal Storm" so seriously. The fact is USA never need to attack Turkey. We are so much financially in dept to them that they can easily crush our economy anytime they want. You could have seen it in near past events. Anytime our parliament passed a decision US government did not like, we had an economic crise. Every year I am spending one month at USA. Very few heavily doctrinated culturalist "all Muslims are evil" kind of Americans hate Turkey. The great majority are fine people who are open and nice to all kind of men. Do not let some people in this mailing list confuse you.

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PeregrinePike RE:Clausewitz and Demirturk -- Pars 4/25/2005 9:24:50 AM

"Turkey may not be accepted into EU because of high population, high birth rate, high unemployment. By the way to your knowledge Clausewitz, education level in Turkey is as high as every other last 10 entrance into EU. And much higher than educational level of Turks that live in Germany. That says something about politics of Germany not about Turkey." -- Is that true?... how do you you explain that?... maybe is that because of the low-paid jobs that are actually open in Germay and consequently attract the least educated (I know it happens with Indians in Gulf)? BTW: I must apologize to you, and thought that Turkey site is the best place to do that... about the "Comming to your town soon" article on the US site, they try to be too smart for anyone's good. For me its better to err on the safe side than on believing that half the population is somehow immune to Jihadist preachings, or that even if they were immune they wouldnt be subject to same human cruelty as all of us do.... especially when history shows otherwise. And if I have made any bad remarks on Turks, its on the eastern Turks and obviously nothing on the people of modern day Turkey. Its just that Muslim trouble-makers in India take a perverse pride in tracing their ancestry back to Turkic invaders, and consequently point to Indian weakness in history. It drives us nuts, and when we make generalizations on Turks its more likely about them than you.

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Pars RE:PeregrinePike. Turks in Germany. Why they were not assimilated into German society. 4/25/2005 7:59:45 PM

-- Is that true?... how do you you explain that?... maybe is that because of the low-paid jobs that are actually open in Germay and consequently attract the least educated (I know it happens with Indians in Gulf)? That was true for the first generation that went to Germany. But 2nd generation and 3rd generation Turks lives in Germany are generally critise that the emigrator families do not have the same educational oppurtunies as the Germans. No matter how good their grades are the not only Turkish but Serb and Greek students are directed to technical schools not Univercities. So for many intelligent Turks computer programming or trade are the only real career oppurtunities as none of these needs University degree. Germans generally says that they proplems with emigrators but they generally fail to notice that USA, UK and Australia also got many emigrators from Turkey or in general Balkans but they did not have these proplems. I think main reason is in these countries there are equal oppurtunities for education and job for every citizen emigrator or not. But in Germany they do not. So a 2nd Generation Turk in USA feels himself as an American, or in Australia an Australian but that is not the case in Germany. If there were really a cultural issue the others will have the same problem. In fact I have met several 2nd Generation American Turks. They did not even know Turkish language. Other than their names it was impossible to know that they are Turk.

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