The Strategypage is a comprehensive summary of military news and affairs.
 News As History - November 25, 2009




New Strategy - Wargames at Discount Prices
1.Modern Air Power: War Over the Middle East
2.Commander: Napoleon at War
3.Close Combat: Watch am Rhein
4.Gallic Wars
5.Fast Action Battle: The Bulge

100+ Computer and Board games all with free shipping.
 
 
 
Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use
How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Turkey Discussion Board
Sign In   Return to Topic Page
Subject: This is how Islamic radicals see Turkey
Pars    2/27/2006 7:55:59 PM
From an Islamic radical web-site. Learn Turks from our enemies.

KEMALISM

Mustafa Kemal grew up during the last parts of the Ottoman Empire. By now the Empire had become corrupt and lost many of its Islamic ways. Kemal, was to go on to complete the destruction of the caliphate which was already in decline. Ataturk is regarded by all scholars as a kaffir (non-muslim), and it is probable that he would have been proud of this.

He was an agent of the shaytan who took the caliphate destroyed it and resurrected the times of Jahiliyya (ignorance- as existed before Islam). He created a state that was godless, secular, and westernised. Ataturk ended the caliphate in 1924. He then banned the Islamic dress code, arabic script, Islamic titles, Islamic family law, and the Islamic calender. He executed any Islamic scholars and opponents who disagreed with him. This was all done for the cause of so-called 'modernisation'. Ataturk claimed that in his new Turkey people would be treated equally regardless of religion. However, he treated all proper muslims as lesser beings, and this has led to it being suggested that perhaps he was a secret Jew or Christian. What is clear is that anyone who follows his ideology of 'Kemalism' can not call themselves muslim.

 
Quote    Reply

Email Me When A New Comment Is Made
Show Only Poster Name and Title     Sort in Reverse Order Posted
Pages: 1 2 3   NEXT
Shirrush    RE:This is how Islamic radicals see Turkey   2/28/2006 8:49:32 AM
Did you post this as a fitting obituary for the regretted secular Kemalism in Reccep Tayyip Erdogan's Islamic-revivalist Turkey? Is there any chance for a secularist block to take over, provided the Islamists, or the armed forces, do not cancel the electoral process altogether?
 
Quote    Reply

Pars    RE:This is how Islamic radicals see Turkey   2/28/2006 5:58:17 PM
Erdogan's party will most probably lose the next election. They are so corrupt and useless that people get sick of them.
 
Quote    Reply

Shirrush    RE:This is how Islamic radicals see Turkey   2/28/2006 6:08:34 PM
When is that next election supposed to take place? Who is likely to win and take over? Will the Islamists go quietly if they lose, or will they start killing people and blowing things up?
 
Quote    Reply

kane    RE:This is how Islamic radicals see Turkey   3/1/2006 7:02:00 AM
"When is that next election supposed to take place? Who is likely to win and take over? Will the Islamists go quietly if they lose, or will they start killing people and blowing things up?" slow down man this is Turkey.It's a modern country with low education and terror on the east. this won't happen in Turkey unless terrorists do something
 
Quote    Reply

Pars    RE:This is how Islamic radicals see Turkey   3/1/2006 7:05:03 AM
Erdogan's party is not radical Islamist, they are moderate islamists. It still disturbs secular Turks, as we believe religion should not have a place in politics. Probably there will be an early election next year, before they lose too many support. My guess is central right (DYP) or a central right-left coalition (DYP-CHP)will win the election. When they lose, they will go quietly because even our Islamist partys' have embraced democracy.
 
Quote    Reply

Shirrush    RE:This is how Islamic radicals see Turkey   3/1/2006 7:07:23 AM
...And you haven't, as usual, answered the question in any way, so I'll ask again: - When are the next elections in Turkey? - Who's running? - Who do you think will win? - Is it going to be boring in a suitable democratic way, or tragically newsworthy?
 
Quote    Reply

Shirrush    RE: Sorry Pars   3/2/2006 3:33:05 PM
I was writing my rant while you already posted yours, but I'd still like to know more about Turkish politics, before I hit the Antalyia trail and find out by myself with the locals arounds a few cups of Turkish coffee...
 
Quote    Reply

Titan    RE:This is how Islamic radicals see Turkey   3/2/2006 10:40:18 PM
"Erdogan's party will most probably lose the next election. They are so corrupt and useless that people get sick of them". What about the previous governments, were they better? Surely not!
 
Quote    Reply

Titan    RE: AKP   3/2/2006 10:48:35 PM
The reality is that AKP has done much better than all the previous governments combined. Take a look at all basic indicators and figures, it's beyond reasonable doubt.
 
Quote    Reply

Exile    To shirrush   3/3/2006 10:52:24 AM
In 1923 our new rebublic was established.Turkey was really poor and had a agricultural society. The old empires structure was based on "religion" and "empire society". not any nationalistic ideas were supported. Afer the Turkish Independence War aganist England supported Greece, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk established the new republic. The new republic had to make big revulations. -the education system was put in same manner.not any religonal based schools -the albepethicwas changed to Latin instead of Arabic -the religonal cults were disbanded -the dynasty of ottoman family and religional spirutal title "caliphet" was removed - lots of schools and academies were established.But there was a big problem.people didnt know to write or read. Village instutes were the cure. in this instutes the idea was " talented teachers" who has skills and knowledge about "language,agricultar,medicine vs) basic civilization needings.. -a new society was created. -new factories and industustiries are supported by goverments funding -engineers,technicans and doctors are sent to foregin industrual countries and came back as experts. But for democracy it had to be more than one party.some struggles to make this was ended with civil rebellion. rebellion was supported by England.the leader of rebellion was Kurdic "seyh sait" England supported it because feared Musul and Kerkuk migt be taken by Turkey. to repulse this rebellion the poor countiries sources were droven out -in the WW II Turkey was sideless.but because of army upkeep the plans of industrial progress was delayed.fundings were still not enough -in 1950 a new party was elected. Demokrat Party. this is at the time when US' Marshall Helping Funding was sent to countries to reduce "leftist sympathy" that must be a helping fundingbut was taken borrow.( first foregein borrow) this was intentional indeed. independency on money to Us was started - the new goverment closed the village instutes.their reason was that ,these instutes was linked to communist beliefs. after that event the ignorance of people lasted.the feudal structure in eastern Turkey is still avaible. this feudal structure is about power of local land owners. ( you see why PKK is still a power) the govermantel authority is reduced by this way -Democrat party was closed and the prime minister was executed fot betraying country. After that events lots of parties came and gone. These parties were usually rightist.Corruption of these parties and capitalist ideas to non-industrial society caused mass of non-workers,ignorance, poor people wthout any skills to survive -in east the situation was worse.no industry ,no job limited agricultural areas caused immigration to west. the ones who didnt immigrate was a chance for the enemies. these people organized as terroristgroup. but it must be a belief and idea.up to thattime kurds was just an ethnic group.by this,the idea "being a nation" was forcely pumped to certain groups. As i mentioned before there is a feudal structure in south eastern Turkey. If you give enogh money to a land owner you could buy the loyalty. -the seperation caused by foregein supported press and media caused multi-govermance and coalation system that slows the all the govermantel structures -and now the our borrownings 157 billion dolar to World Bank. only % 91 of population know how to write and read. % 9 is huge for a populaton of 70 millon and the answers of your questions - When are the next elections in Turkey? after 2 years - Who's running? the AKP is running. He s a loyal servant to US. but still doesnt has enogh power. some forces in Turkey is limitation to movemants. ( the pass of Us troops isnt allowed.) - Who do you think will win? US controlled media supports AKP. It would probably win next elections.I cant understand my own people - Is it going to be boring in a suitable democratic way, or tragically newsworthy? it would be both. Yes there is democracy in turkey but people vote to ones whom they re told to.
 
Quote    Reply

Shirrush    RE:This is how Islamic radicals see Turkey   3/3/2006 12:14:20 PM
"Erdogan's party is not radical Islamist, they are moderate islamists" Sorry pal, but around here, "moderate Islam" is either extinct or a suspicious misnomer, and the term "moderate islamists" sounds as funny as "non-drinking alcoholists": you can be either a moderate, or an Islamist, not both. Out of Turkyie, and apparently a few nice Indian neighborhoods and Subsaharian oases as well, there is only ONE Islam, and it is an instrument of World domination which ultimate goal is to remain the only religion on Earth. Even the blood-drenched Sunni-Shi'ia divide, which is purely "administrative" and eschatological in nature anyway, disappears when confronted with the greater duties of Jihad against Infidelity. Your country is certainly special in this regard, since apparently your clever brethren have found many ways to circumvent the most rock-hard dogmatic, change-adverse religion on Earth, and make it blossom into a puzzling quilt of diversity. Here in the Rest of the World, I'm afraid that apart from a few groups that have in fact gone off the far end and into what most Moslems would describe as heresy, such as the Druse, the Ahmadyia (these guys are from India anyway, right?), the Bahai, and, G_d forbid, the Yazidis, no method to be both a Moslem and a nice guy has been found. Salafist Sunni and Khomeinist Shi'ite ideologies are now the mainstream, and there's no way that these two would admit there's a place under the sun of Allah for anything non-jihading or "moderate", let alone non-Islamic. It thus appears, from where I'm standing, or, rather, sitting at my computer in my pajamas, that Erdogan is not following any of these charmingly Turkish complicated and metaphysical Soufi doctrines, but rather the mainstream, standard Sunni RoP that is professed by the likes of Qardawi. His apparent, and very superficial moderation, is mandated by self-preservation since the secular constitution of Turkyie is itself superciliously guarded by the powerful military. After the AKP has been in power for a few years, it now seems that, rather than going on a collision course with the generals like his left-wing predecessors, Erdogan has managed to muster sufficient popular support to in fact erode the secular character of the Turkish society to a point that even the arak-drinking generals would don a turban to go along with Erdogan's neo-Othman Islamic brand of nationalism. Please feel free to open fire if I'm talking out of my arse. I think Turkyie is too big, too complex and too diverse to be readily understandable, and even an extensive hike through the whole ferking Google has convinced me that, to be able to understand WTF is going on, I'd need either to learn Turkish, or to get some help from you guys.
 
Quote    Reply

kane    RE:shirrush   3/3/2006 12:43:07 PM
AKP is modarate.ASo there are still modarate muslims.He accepted that he is a religious guy but the country is not ruled by religion so i have to obey this. His wife is wearing turban which makes our prestige lower and makes me very angry. examples for modarate islam: the countries on the west of ISrael(except egypt maybe) There are still cults in Turkey.Many were shut after new repuclic.but here are still some even the religious people in Turkey is not exterimist.Exterimists are very low in numbers.(many of my friends are muslim but they do not have strong beliefs The diffrence of Turkey is :WE are NOT RELIGIOUS but EXTREME NATIONALISTS-and i'm proud of it this is the reason we never become puppet of a country.But unless we find a good leader we are like puppets.Turkey is weak if you're not in war with them.You can make Turkey your puppet if you're not in war-ex:NOW Turks are generally proud with Ottomans because of their fighting and leading skills.Not because they were islamic.Even Ottomans weren't that islamic(yes they weren't) the main problem in here is:education,PKK and job problems not religion :D
 
Quote    Reply

Exile    to kane ((im ashamed of you >-( )))   3/3/2006 1:15:26 PM
Kane Turks arent nationalist or something else. u re usinig the wrong terms.Every Turk love his or her country.and ths is just it.no more no less You are using nationalism like something that must be proud. Someone who has nothing valuable, sees nationalism as a trait and you are one of them. You are not representing your country and you dont have to proof somethings to someone. look other boards, everyone teases and have fun with you. Nationalism the word u use is a blank word without having civizilation traits and requreiments. If you dont use your mind -if you dont work as hard as like other nations love ur country or not. it doesnt matter. Nationalism is valuable with a clear mind and the idea of equality of people. If we were extreme nationalist there should be a party like Hitlers one.but there is not. if we were extreme, there must be only pure Turks but not. Turks,Kurds,Lazgyes or Bosnains we all live in dignity with integrity.If we were extreme nationalist there must be no ethnics structures in our country but there are. Like Mustafa Kemal says ; Everbody who live in this country have a genral identification of Turk and Turkish citizenship. there must be other identies as ethnics but that doesnt matter unless these groups're in the company of inner or outer enemies.
 
Quote    Reply

kane    RE:to kane ((im ashamed of you >-( )))   3/3/2006 1:21:19 PM
man we're nationalist but not racist should i say extreme patriotic if you step on a turkis flag in the street they would beat you badly but you're not words i chose were too much sorry we're not like hitler we've been living with tens of ethnics from the time we settled in Anatolia(you know these) OK this is better :D
 
Quote    Reply

kane    RE:and   3/3/2006 1:24:31 PM
no need to be ashamed of me pllls they're not having fun with me but they're telling me that i'm sooo young for this adult forum i'm trying to hold in here and i'm happy that a new Turks has joined the forum BTW would you like to give your age?(mine is 15)
 
Quote    Reply
Pages: 1 2 3   NEXT



StrategyWorld.com© 1998 - 2009StrategyWorld.com. All rights Reserved. StrategyWorld.com, StrategyPage.com, FYEO, For Your Eyes Only and Al Nofi's CIC are all trademarks of StrategyWorld.com Privacy Policy