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career909 RE:Titan 11/10/2005 5:34:50 PM

Genocide???? get real. Genocide requires one side to be weak and no fault. During an uprising revolt its all fair in love and war. Jews had genocide. Nanking was a genocide. Inca civilation being devastated and wipe out was a genocide. Now you feel better.

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Pars RE:Titan 11/10/2005 7:42:11 PM

Although it was a very bloody affair. It was still a supression of a revolt. Turkish resolve was limited to the area where there was a revolt. And thousands of Turkish and Kurdish civilians were also killed by Armenian revolters.

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Pseudonym Not Genocide? 11/10/2005 7:52:27 PM

Ok fine by me. We can stick with Mass Murder and Crimes against Humanity. Those are more than enough for me to require some sense of guilt and wrongness. But hey, their Turkish right? Whats a couple hundred thousand more on top of the pile.

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Pars Genocide 11/10/2005 8:22:54 PM

What about Turkish Genocide that happened at early 20th century at the Balkans and Caucaus? And this one is really proven by documents from several countries and noone ever denied it. Of course noone ever cares if the dead are Turks. In the Armenian-Turkish war in both sides there were mass murders. Several Turks who were responsible were punished after the war but no Armenians. Of course they were the allies of the winners of WW1. The real question that should be asked is Turks, Armenians, Kurds and Greeks that were living at Anatolia were brothers of 1 nation at late 19th century and early 20th century. They lived side by side in peace. Why between 1915-1923 they all started to kill each other. Why Anatolia witnessed an ethnical war? The answer is simple. France-Britain-Russia arranged it to weaken Ottoman Empire. As long as we Turks, Kurds, Armenians and Greeks not learn to live in peace side by side; we will continue to be pawns of the great game.

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Titan RE:Pars 11/10/2005 8:49:03 PM

"They lived side by side in peace. Why between 1915-1923 they all started to kill each other" Because they wanted independence. I would also fight to the death if my country was occupied by a foreign power.

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Titan RE:Titan 11/10/2005 8:55:48 PM

I think something went wrong, I didn't intend to start a new topic, but wanted to answer in the existing one.

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Pars RE:Pars 11/10/2005 10:51:21 PM

No power is foreign after staying in a place 900 years. No power is foreign if that power has more population than the others in the designated area. And no power is foreign if that power see the area as its motherland.

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Pseudonym RE:Pars 11/11/2005 1:49:26 AM

"No power is foreign after staying in a place 900 years. No power is foreign if that power has more population than the others in the designated area. And no power is foreign if that power see the area as its motherland." I take it you have no problem with the slaughter of the Native Americans then. While that may be your lesson, our lesson was received and understood. We know we made mistakes and have moved to correct them. That is called progress. Denying it happened is what is the problem. Not the acts themselves, the perpatrators are long dead, but the actual DENIAL of the act is what is disturbing. It shows a distinct lack of the ability to learn from your history, good and bad, which means the Turks are going to eventually relearn these lessons.

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Pseudonym RE:Genocide 11/11/2005 1:54:25 AM

"They lived side by side in peace. Why between 1915-1923 they all started to kill each other. Why Anatolia witnessed an ethnical war? The answer is simple. France-Britain-Russia arranged it to weaken Ottoman Empire." Yes and 9/11 was a CIA attack. It was a cruise missile that hit the Pentagon. The rise of the Taliban is our fault for not Democratizing Afghanistan by waving our majic wand. Oh yeah, and OJ is innocent.

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career909 RE:Genocide 11/11/2005 9:28:24 AM

Pseudonym pretty good. can you roll over and play dead. thanks.

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FJV RE:Genocide 11/11/2005 12:46:18 PM

I take a very dim view of the attitude I see here. I don't accept this kind of stuff from my fellow Dutch who say that there weren't any war crimes commited in Indonesia. And I don't see why I would make an exception for others. This is the "Turkey can do no wrong attitude". It's like some cannot accept that Turkey also has had it's black page in the history books, their fragile ego's won't let them admit mistakes. Of course such issues are going to rot and rot until acknowledged and laid to rest, then you learn from it and move on.

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kane RE:not sure about Genocide 11/11/2005 1:29:16 PM

i sometimes feel like we committed a genocide.but pars is right.it happened because of foreigners. as i know while we were fighting aganist russians(90 000 soldiers were frozen) in the east armenians(an ancient nation supported by a great group SYSTEM OF A DOWN) revolted.ARMY was having hard times and armenians were making it harder so we sent them(every convoy was defended by soldiers and doctors were helping) some psycho high ranking soldiers killed armenians but they were executed in istanbul because of this. +they were attacked by other ethnic groups. armenians were living in peace with us.in those days armenians killed 542 000(something like this) turks. there were many genocides.but pars is right again if it is aganist turks it's not a genocide.foreigners do not like turks so all of them become united aganist turks when they have a chance. Will foreigners will be relaxed when we say -yes we killed armenians.we hate them and killed them for no reason.we are psycho we will pay them back.we have to give the lands they want.- Yok karde�im soyk�r�m moyk�r�m.adamlar istediklerini yapal�m diye kabul ettirmeye �al��yor.bizi istemiolar karde�im onlar�n k�pe�i mi olcaz.b�rak�n y�rts�nlar kendilerini.hemen b�rakmay�n kendinizi.

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Pseudonym RE:not sure about Genocide 11/11/2005 3:38:52 PM

"i sometimes feel like we committed a genocide.but pars is right.it happened because of foreigners." In this line of reasoning the atrocities committed by the USA against Native Americans is not our fault. WE CAN PROVE THE EUROPEANS STARTED IT. So its not our fault right? Grow up you little kids and be men. Denial does not change facts. All it does is cause us to say, "look they won't accept responsiblity for their actions, why should we ever trust them" Next you will be telling me there was no holocaust.

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Pseudonym Read this thread and the Turkish responses, you will understand why they will not be in the EU 11/11/2005 3:41:50 PM

Moral responsibility.

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career909 question is what was it? 11/12/2005 3:37:21 AM

This death of people was a genecide or a revolt? Well according to the records it was a revolt. In a genocide, jews were collect in germany to be killed. In a revolt Nation trys to suprass the revolt first if not succesfull expuls them from the territory. That is a fact. In ottoman empire Erminians revolted. As you can see from the facts it was try to put down first then it was ordered to expulsion from the ottoman land to syria and russia. Erminians were given amply time to put the weapons down and stop the revolt. Morral resposible of a nation of the world is to defend its citizens against act of terror and terrorism in any given time.

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