Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Russia Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: The Republic of South Ossetia
SGTObvious    8/27/2008 3:59:52 PM
Just thinking... Russia recognizes the place as a nation. Russian regards the inhabitants as Russian, even issuing them passports. (At least, the non-Georgian inhabitants.) The Georgians have been ethnically cleansed. What is left is... the only nation ever composed entirely of foreign expatriates? t
 
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
warpig       8/27/2008 4:06:54 PM
Right on.  It's a brilliant play.  The OC (Original Commies) back in the day couldn't have done it any smoother.  Lenin and Stalin have nothing on Putin when it comes to slick moves.
 
 
Quote    Reply

Yimmy       8/27/2008 5:42:29 PM

Just thinking...
Russia recognizes the place as a nation.
Russian regards the inhabitants as Russian, even issuing them passports. (At least, the non-Georgian inhabitants.)
The Georgians have been ethnically cleansed.
What is left is... the only nation ever composed entirely of foreign expatriates?
t
Russia recognised South Ossetia as a state I believe, not a nation.  The nation would be that of the Ossetians,  who are obviously also in North Ossetia.  Offering them Russian passports would make the Ossetians of dual nationality.  When/Who ethnically cleansed the Georgians?

 
Quote    Reply

Knjaz       8/28/2008 12:02:59 PM
Actually, there is such nationality as Ossetians. And South Ossetia and Abkhazia declared their independence with dissolvement of Soviet Union.
And there's a question - why Georgia could have it's independence, and 2 of it's regions, that were incorporated into Georgia under commies and never saw themselves as Georgians - couldn't ?
It's not like Georgia separated from SU and then after some 10 years 2 regions decided to become independent - they did it "from start".

 
Quote    Reply

SGTObvious       8/28/2008 1:42:03 PM

Actually, there is such nationality as Ossetians. And South Ossetia and Abkhazia declared their independence with dissolvement of Soviet Union.

And there's a question - why Georgia could have it's independence, and 2 of it's regions, that were incorporated into Georgia under commies and never saw themselves as Georgians - couldn't ?

Let's talk reasonable lower bounds, otherwise, you go down the path of Georgian towns declaring independence from South Ossetia, Ossetians living in those Georgian towns, declaring their homes independent, divided families drawing international borders in their kitchens and requesting UN mediation over use of the toilet.  Georgia has over 4 million people.  South Ossetia has 70,000.  One has the manpower to be a nation state.  One doesn't.
SGTObvious

 
Quote    Reply

SGTObvious       8/28/2008 1:45:16 PM

  When/Who ethnically cleansed the Georgians?




South Ossetians and Abkazians did, with Russian help. 
http://www.internal-displacement.org/8025708F004CE90B/(httpCountries)/F62BE07C33DE4D19802570A7004C84A3?OpenDocument
 
Guess who will be allowed to return to their former homes in South Ossetia and who won't be?
 
SGTObvious
 
 
Quote    Reply

Yimmy       8/28/2008 1:59:50 PM
Your link doesn't work.  Given the uproar there would be over any solid evidence of Georgians being ethnically cleansed - and the lack of it - I am surmising there is a lack of solid evidence.  Of course, what we do know is that Georgia indiscriminately shelled South Ossetian civilian towns.
 
And who says 70,000 is too small to constitute a state?  How large do you think the old European states were, for instance the British county states?

 
Quote    Reply

SGTObvious       8/28/2008 2:21:10 PM

Your link doesn't work. 
 
Works fine for me. 
 
Try it the hard way.  You can find plenty of Georgia refugee info at
 
 
Given the uproar there would be over any solid evidence of Georgians being ethnically cleansed - and the lack of it - I am surmising there is a lack of solid evidence. 
 
Nope.   You surmised wrong.   Really, really wrong.  There is information all over the place, from organizations very different political color.  Try looking up the Reuters "AlertNet", the CIA's world fact book, Reliefweb, the International Red Cross...
 
Good God, a "lack of solid evidence"?   Have you even bothered to look, before "surmising"?
 
 
Quote    Reply

Yimmy       8/28/2008 3:15:52 PM
"Of course, what we do know is that Georgia indiscriminately shelled South Ossetian civilian towns.

Explain how we "know" this, other than from Russian and seperatist reports.   Georgian reports differ."  


On the contrary, I have been following the media reports very closely, as the issue interests me - and I have seen no evidence of genocide or ethnic cleansing.  Unless you can produce some, my thoughts on the matter aren't likely to change.  This is while we "know" that Georgia shelled the towns through considerable amounts of said towns being broadcast by every media outlet under the sun as reduced to rubble.  This happened before the Russian armoured column entered South Ossetia.  


It's quite an interesting thesis as to what exactly constitutes and is required of a modern state - however as per the traditional Westphalian definition, a state is a land mass with clearly defined borders and headed by a central governing body, which holds sovereignty (largely entailed in the monopoly on violence) over this territory.  70,000 is plenty for this.  While as by this Western definition - Georgia obviously does not enjoy sovereignty over South Ossetia or Abkhaza, and so can not seriously claim them as part of the Georgian state. 
 
Quote    Reply

Jimme       8/29/2008 1:30:49 AM



Just thinking...


Russia recognizes the place as a nation.


Russian regards the inhabitants as Russian, even issuing them passports. (At least, the non-Georgian inhabitants.)


The Georgians have been ethnically cleansed.


What is left is... the only nation ever composed entirely of foreign expatriates?


t

Russia recognised South Ossetia as a state I believe, not a nation.  The nation would be that of the Ossetians,  who are obviously also in North Ossetia. 
 
So Russia is going to liberate its half of Ossetia so the Ossetians can be a nation? not likely. More likely this is a pretext to Russia absorbing South Oss into the Russian fold. 
 
Offering them Russian passports would make the Ossetians of dual nationality. 
 
The whole population are dual citizens? Any other examples of such states?  Or is this just a pretext for Russia to claim all of Ossetia.
 
When/Who ethnically cleansed the Georgians?
 
I dont know of recent events though it would not be surprising . I do know the original war in 1992 involved extreme examples of ethnic cleansing of Georgians from Ossetia.



Lets not kid ourselves this is the first phase of a Russian land grab.

 
Quote    Reply



 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics