Grape shot

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WinsettZ RE:Grape shot 7/17/2004 8:35:28 PM

Canister

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IsoT RE:Grape shot 7/18/2004 3:33:51 AM

Well,, Just take a separate loading bottom half of the round. Take off some powder bags. Put in some cloth. The put on top of that bolts, nuts, little rocks, catridge brasses. some more cloth to keep it tingh and wait the infantry to close to say 100m.

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scholar RE:Grape shot 7/18/2004 9:50:37 AM

Is that ever done? Did gunners in WW2 ever do that?

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Bigbro RE:Grape shot 7/18/2004 11:00:49 AM

project beehive

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Sam RE:Grape shot IsoT 7/18/2004 11:09:41 AM

When you fire that, all that will happen is 1. A big flame from the end of your tube. Might scare the crap out of them at night. 2. Some really hot nuts, bolts and rocks and melted brass in your tube. You have most likely ruined the tube with deep gouges. I heard that story many times and it wont work. You can bake an improvised claymore with nuts, bolts, rocks cardboard an ammo can and block of C4 but your not shooting that crap out of a modern arty tube. If you want the "grapeshot" effect, US version. 105mm Howitzer - use M546 APERS-T 7000 Steel flechettes (FAS says 8000,Ft Sill teaches 7000) Stopped more than 1 NVA charge. You can also use the following 155 techniques. 155mm- HE/MTSQ in the direct fire mode, ICM in the wire (High angle with short fuse time) WP MTSQ (watch the wind!) Nothing stops a assault like running through a cloud of willie pete. From a historical standpoint, Grape shot was a naval round designed to shread sails and rigging. The anitpersonnel effects were secondary. " Just take a separate loading bottom half of the round. Take off some powder bags. Put in some cloth. The put on top of that bolts, nuts, little rocks, catridge brasses. some more cloth to keep it tingh and wait the infantry to close to say 100m.

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Sam RE:Grape shot IsoT 7/18/2004 11:15:21 AM

Quick correction: You can bake an improvised claymore with nuts, bolts, rocks cardboard an ammo can and block of C4 but your not shooting that crap out of a modern arty tube. Change Bake to make. don't go baking your explosives. Tee off the wife and have to remodel the house.

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Crosshair RE:Grape shot IsoT 7/26/2004 2:39:28 AM

A Remington 870 with 10 round tube loaded with 00 buckshot will have a similar effect on troops Sam Change Bake to make. don't go baking your explosives. Tee off the wife and have to remodel the house Good advice, you also owe me a new keyboard. Koolaid doesn't clean out easy.

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IsoT RE:Grape shot IsoT 7/26/2004 3:52:25 AM

Yep in old days tha Grape was in tin canister, which broke up when it contacted the soil. I was thinking more on shotgun basics. and yes it is not advisable to put all kinds of stuff into barrel, but you could try it with blanket and iron hardware. A bit like shooting tanks with HE rounds it will not do that much damge, but still is the quickest way to empty barrel and get new one going.

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technoid RE:Grape shot IsoT 7/28/2004 12:29:48 PM

I would bet that the US Army frowns on soldiers putting anything other than regulation bullets into their guns! I've recently read something about fragmenting rounds. If you folks want to read some interesting stuff I found a web site that has lots of cool briefings on military weapons. I was searching around on some defense contractors sites and found a link to something called the National Defense Industry Association. Then I found some papers from a conference they had. You can find these at www.dtic.mil/ndia/2004armaments/2004armaments.html There is some briefings in here about ammo and lots of other cool stuff. Maybe I'll start a new topic on this.

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andyf RE:Grape shot IsoT 8/24/2004 10:53:08 AM

theres a new round out for the m1's cannon. its a big fat canister round. 1100 tungsten steel balls- could sting a little

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HorribleSailor RE:Historical note 8/24/2004 12:22:57 PM

Erm, no it wasn't. Grape was very short ranged and used for it's anti-personel properties, tearing up sails and rigging was secondary. Far better for that purpose was bar / chain shot.

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jastayme3 RE:Grape shot 8/24/2004 2:06:53 PM

Is that ever done? Did gunners in WW2 ever do that ----------------------------- gunners in wwII did use it, it was used in Guadalcanal for instance. However normally gunners don't get that close anymore. It was used in Vietnam, and probably a lot more because the lack of clear lines allowed firebases to be attacked several times. In Vietnam it was also used out of tank guns, sometimes quite effective in that form

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scholar andyf 8/24/2004 5:27:20 PM

How big are those 1100 Tungsten balls? Yikes, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near that thing.

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Nichevo RE:andyf 10/20/2004 2:14:19 AM

1) Somebody already nailed it with the new 120mm canister round for the M1. 2) Grapeshot, smaller than the lone solid shot meant for a given bore, were larger than case shot and were meant for more property damage, probably analogous to killing soft-skinned vehicles rather than personnel. Wouldn't pierce the hull but it'd probably smash up the ship's wheel pretty good, for instance, or kill a ship's boat. It also might have been better than case (canister) at longer ranges. They also had such specialties as bar and chain shot to tear up rigging and the like. 3) It seems unlikely that WWII or later dates stuffed autoloading weapons with blackpowder or nails. All weapons of WWII used self-contained brass or steel cartridges to hold both powder and shot. If you had powder, you in all likelihood therefore had shot. I doubt many on Guadalcanal found themselves caught short with a lot of blank cartridges. It is possible, though odd, that they found themselves with no ammo but with reloading supplies. As for loading scrap in the barrel, again, not really apropos of modern designs. I suppose, on some occasion or other, artillery might have had something shoved down its maw. Again, this supposes one has powder but no shot, which is a little more possible with artillery, but also seems unlikely. Shotguns--you have me there. People will put ANYTHING in a shotshell ;>.

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big79 RE:andyf 11/16/2004 5:34:22 PM

my kowledge of history is that chain/bar shot was anti mast/sail canister is anti sail/personel solid shot was anti rigging/personel now let me explain this solid shot did a great job at penetrating things like the iron rigging that attachted the mast support ropes to the lower hull, cutting these would disable the mast. the solid shot capaillity in the anti personel for the navy was from the debri from a shell strike. the splinters from a single solid shot strike could cause the loss of an entire gun crew even if the shell never penetrated the hull. most naval battles were won by attrition of men not from sinking ships. grape shot was used to create splinters and to take out sails grape shot being 1" to 2 1/2" balls. On the land grape shot and canister were mixed at first creating a multi range round. the solid shot was used to strike solid targets to cause damage or create spall. canister was not developed until the 1800's exploding shells were the original longer range anti personel rounds.

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