I submit that no nation posed more of a direct threat to the USA than the Soviet Union.  While we did fight Germany twice in the past century and the British did burn Washington DC in 1812 - no nation stood much of a chance of obliterating the USA except the Soviet Union.  We nearly went to nuclear war with the Soviet and today we are still fighting the legacy left by the communists (China, North Korea and the billions of dollars of Soviet era weapons technology).

 

Heh.  Don't worry, British Lion, I'm not out to pick a fight - I'm here to have fun.  Call it an academic exercise, heck I thought some brits might take it as a compliment (Oh and Happy New Year).

 

What I wrote about the British Empire (different era, different people, NOT trying to implicate "you") during our Civil War was based on what I remember from American History class in High School a few years back; a little vague, but I'll check the internet in a little while to make sure of the facts.

 

Off the top of my head, I was taught the British helped build a Confederate Navy which devastated the Union's shipping as well as smuggled weaponry.  They also loaned the Confederacy the money to buy the weapons and tried to negotiate a truce between the warring parties that would give the South independence.

 

I'll read up on it in the mean time to make sure though.

I considered that, but again, I'm not sure if the Soviets "realistically" came as close as the British.  I guess it depends on how you weight the Soviet's ability to countenance Mutually Assured Destruction or whether they doubted American Will to retaliate enough to take action.  Difference of opinion, I guess. 

I do, however, think that the ideological challenge posed by the Soviets was formidable.  We're DEFINITELY still dealing with that.  Heck, some people say that humanity's been dealing with socialist vs capitalist models since antiquity BM (before Marx).

Now, now, there...I don't think the British Empire didn't end America's existence for lack of trying.  Come on  B.L.  :)  Give the poor Americans a little credit. T_T

I considered that, but again, I'm not sure if the Soviets "realistically" came as close as the British.  I guess it depends on how you weight the Soviet's ability to countenance Mutually Assured Destruction or whether they doubted American Will to retaliate enough to take action.  Difference of opinion, I guess. 

I do, however, think that the ideological challenge posed by the Soviets was formidable.  We're DEFINITELY still dealing with that.  Heck, some people say that humanity's been dealing with socialist vs capitalist models since antiquity BM (before Marx).

Sorry mate, I didn't intend for my reply to sound defensive at all. I know you weren't attacking me or my country at all, so it's cool :) Happy New Year to you too btw!

But you're right, we did trade with the Confeds in arms and the dreaded CSS Alabama I believe was British built... but, that being said, I'm not aware of us showing great favor to the Confeds in our traded... I think we traded more with them because they needed to trade with us more... the Union could manufacture most of what it needed to fight with. Granted, I'm sure our sympathies played a role, but ultimatly I think we just were in it for the cash lol "a nation of shopkeepers" remember?

B.L.

it should be noted that Britain traded with the Union at the same time as the CSA.... it did not pick a side in the civil war.

 

also note that an awful lot of Britain's (both mainland and colonials) joined up and fought for the Union against the CSA.... far more than signed up for the CSA (which tends to be more talked about for some reason)

 

Paul

The US and USSR nearly came to nuclear blows not less than 3 times during the Cold War.  The fact that such a war would have ended civilization as we know it in comparison to a temporary set back to the US either in 1776 or 1812 shows exactly how dangerous the Soviet Union was. 

The proxy wars that took place all through the Cold War were a direct result of the strategy from Moscow toward a global communist state.  One single weapon - the AK-47 - from the Soviet era still dominates the world in warfare today.

 

Having faced the Soviets at the Fulda gap - I know personally that the 30 Soviet armored divisions in East Germany were an unstoppable force.  We used to joke - with some factual basis - that you could step up on a T-72 at the border and not set your feet back on the ground until you reached the Polish border.

 

Despite the wars on US soil by the UK (e.g. 1812) the threat was never anywhere near 50,000 tanks, 12,000 combat aircraft, 6,000 ballistic missiles, 60,000 nuclear warheads and 5 million men poised from pole to pole - ready to fight a doomsday war.

Now now, we both know it was the French that really won that war ;)

B.L.

Ugh...

Outdone by the French ?  Surely you jest! 

 

I never knew the sub's namesake in "Crimson Tide" had such a pedigree.  Apparently, CSS Alabama set some records for taking out US merchant ships (numbers range from 64 to 69 depending on the description of "prize" or "destroyed").  I wonder if those submariners know that !  ;) 

 

The money that was lent was in the form of "cotton bonds" and junk bonds.  The cotton bonds could be exchanged for cotton but ONLY if the South survived the War.  I guess that was the South's consolation prize.  When the Civil War was over, the [newly defunct] Confederacy didn't have to pay back their creditors.  :P

Down right un-American...

it should be noted that Britain traded with the Union at the same time as the CSA.... it did not pick a side in the civil war.

 

 

Found this interview which might explain things better.  It also might explain why the Empire wanted to split the United States in two.

also note that an awful lot of Britain's (both mainland and colonials) joined up and fought for the Union against the CSA.... far more than signed up for the CSA (which tends to be more talked about for some reason)

Paul

Found a listing in the BBC to something of that effect.  It's at the bottom of the page.  The exact numbers of the british on the Confederate side are unknown.  However, 67 of the 1522 Medals of Honor were awarded to the British.  Hoo-ah!