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Subject: Israel Has A Better Idea
SYSOP    2/4/2013 5:17:20 AM
 
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trenchsol       2/4/2013 10:55:13 AM
It turns standard infantry rifle into low cost OICW style weapon, right ? Sounds too good to be true.
 
DG
 
 
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ColonelKorg       2/4/2013 11:31:34 AM
Now, add that MPRS to the six shot  USMC M32 MGL and you really have something!
 
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Shirrush    Uh?   2/4/2013 11:45:32 AM
Does this mean that the MPRS is out of R&D limbo, and that its manufacter IMI is on its way out of the red?
 
In any case, there is not even a rumor of any IDF procurement so far.
 
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TonoFonseca    Spelling error   2/4/2013 1:56:22 PM
Am I the only one who notices that it says "attacked to the rail" instead of "attached to the rail"?
 
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Sty0pa       2/5/2013 9:46:23 AM
"...suck most of the oxygen out of a cave or closed room long enough to make surviving troops at least a bit groggy. This gives the attacking troops an opportunity to rush in and kill the enemy or take prisoners...."
 
Seriously, does anyone actually READ this stuff as they're writing this?
 
A 25mm thermobaric round essentially is a WP round without the smoke; it disperses a fine metal dust that ignites on contact with oxygen, 'flaming' out the area.  The ignition is much like gunpowder (in the sense that gunpowder doesn't explode, it just burns really really fast), so each particle contributes in aggregate to a thermal/overpressure damage zone. 
 
The idea that it will 'suck the air out, stunning people' is just stupid.  Think for a second, if you *instantly* took all the oxygen out of a gymnasium-sized area, really, how long would it take for the O2 to rush back in?  1 second?  Less?  And with a 25mm projectile, we're talking about what, 30g of explosive?  How much area is that really going to evacuate?
 
It stuns them from overpressure coming from all directions, not from 'sucking the oxygen away'. 
 
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vahitkanig       2/5/2013 1:14:22 PM
Good  for  police  operation  or  special  forces but  on the battle field not  too  much  practical effect...
I give  more  credit sniper or  anti-material rifles.
Afganistan  or Iraq  cannot simulate  battlefield  conditions
I quess regional  war  like  a cold war  sterss mislead US Defence Strategy.
 
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Belisarius1234    Useful post from StyOpa.   2/5/2013 2:48:29 PM
And the Shirrush post asked useful questions to go with the useful information.
 
Trenchsol raised a useful skeptical note.
 
The rest was useless noise.
 
B.

 

A 25mm thermobaric round essentially is a WP round without the smoke; it disperses a fine metal dust that ignites on contact with oxygen, 'flaming' out the area.  The ignition is much like gunpowder (in the sense that gunpowder doesn't explode, it just burns really really fast), so each particle contributes in aggregate to a thermal/overpressure damage zone. 

 

The idea that it will 'suck the air out, stunning people' is just stupid.  Think for a second, if you *instantly* took all the oxygen out of a gymnasium-sized area, really, how long would it take for the O2 to rush back in?  1 second?  Less?  And with a 25mm projectile, we're talking about what, 30g of explosive?  How much area is that really going to evacuate?

 

It stuns them from overpressure coming from all directions, not from 'sucking the oxygen away'. 

 
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Don Vandervelde    limit the bad-mouthing and boasting    2/10/2013 10:23:38 PM
Concentrate on ideas and concepts,  Especially new ones.  I.e. if you eliminate the Oxygen from a room and replace all the lost oxygen with new air, the O2 is suddenly reduced by a highly significant 80%.  Do it again, it's reduced by ~95%.
 
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Belisarius1234    Come again?   2/11/2013 12:33:19 AM

The new air contains ~19% oxygen 78% nitrogen and 1-2% trace gases  as it inrushes. 
 
B.
 
 
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WarNerd       2/11/2013 2:58:03 AM
The new air contains ~19% oxygen 78% nitrogen and 1-2% trace gases  as it inrushes. 
The oxygen in converted to CO2 and H2O on a mole per mole basis. There may be a slight increase in number of moles of gas in the room due to N2 evolved from the explosive, and a slight increase in volume from the temperature rise. This means the gas flow is outwards from the room, not inwards.
 
There will probably be some rebound, but even then the incoming air will stick close to the entry point and only gradually will the oxygen penetrate the room by diffusion, unless there is some mechanism (wind, a fan, etc) forcing the gases to mix.
 
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