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Subject: Transport seaplanes for the Marines
longrifle    11/17/2005 3:00:07 PM
I started thinking about this while reading a thread about fighter seaplanes. Transport seaplanes are an old concept, couldn't we build them even better today, and would they not increse the Marine Corps capability as an expeditionary force?

Land in a littoral area, rigid raiders and LAVs off the back ramp, shore raid, rescue op etc., the planes land and withdraw the raid force.

Transport seaplanes inserted and extracted Sixth Army Alamo Scouts in New Guinea and the Phillipines numerous times in WWII, so the basic idea is tried and true. Anyone think it can work for a larger force? Would there be a problem with a roll on/off ramp at sea for vehicles?
 
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longrifle    RE:Transport seaplanes for the Marines   11/17/2005 3:09:22 PM
Let me carify something. Please evaluate the seaplane idea without bringing the Osprey into the picture. I think we already know that even if seaplanes are a good idea they will not happen because the Marine Corps is pouring money into, and betting the farm on, the Osprey.
 
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AlbanyRifles    RE:Transport seaplanes for the Marines   11/17/2005 3:21:48 PM
Actually, the seaplane type mission was taken on by the helicopter. That said, sea planes were proven to be impractical in the jet age.....the advantage of sea planes was their long range....they preferred (particlularly the PBY guys) to land on a runway instead of water. With inflight refuel capabilities, a CH-53 would be just as effective.
 
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seantheaussie    RE:Transport seaplanes for the Marines   11/17/2005 3:52:56 PM
The ones who really need seaplanes are coastguard type forces. Not so much for rescue as if rescue is required the water would often be too rough to land on but for EEZ protection.
 
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Yimmy    RE:Transport seaplanes for the Marines   11/17/2005 6:07:22 PM
You can land a Chinook on water, and push a rigid raider out the back. Although, I do like the idea of an amphib A400 :D.
 
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leerw    RE:Transport seaplanes for the Marines   11/20/2005 8:05:10 PM
Well you are close, the Navy is actually studiying the use of seaplanes to ferry marines to the seabase. Unfortunately they got stupid by trying to incorporate a lot of cargo lift capability into the plane and its design immediately got way too big. Stick to what is need a means to move fully equipped troops over long distances to a port or base where they are needed. BTW the HSV Westpac Express does all you talked about NOW for a lot less in cost.
 
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phrogdriver    RE:Transport seaplanes for the Marines   1/14/2006 8:38:06 AM
Not as far out there as one might think. The Soviets employed huge "ekranoplans" to carry troops on the Caspian sea. These aircraft were seaplanes that only flew in ground effect, within a few meters of the water. This allowed them to have an enormous lifting capacity. Definitely more of a thing for a Marine Corps that operates in a regional area, vice the USMC, which has a global reach, but a cool piece of gear. One example: link
 
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Professor Fickle    Russian sea plane   1/20/2006 9:52:39 PM
Russian sea plae link
 
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Librarian    RE:Transport seaplanes for the Marines   4/4/2006 1:01:31 PM
Actually, they tried the concept in the 40's and 50's with the Convair Tradewind. The conclusion was that the aircraft were too vulnerable for the concept to work very well. If the concept were to be re-tried there would be a significant obstacle in that no American aircraft manufacturer has produced a large flying boat in about 50 years. The only people with recent experience are the Canadians (Bombardier/Canadair), the Japanese (the Shin Meiwa ), the Chinese, the Russia (Beriev) and the Germans (Dornier which if I recall is pretty much out of business).
 
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gf0012-aust    RE:Russian sea plane   4/4/2006 7:22:26 PM
the Iranians have just announced that theyre building Wing in Ground Effects sea planes. they've been running footage for the last 48hrs. They have been pretty busy with the Russians....
 
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reefdiver    RE:Russian sea plane - nice pics of BE-200   4/4/2006 7:33:49 PM
link I want one for use in the Bahamas...
 
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