poorest MBT ?

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boer RE:poorest MBT ? 2/18/2005 11:32:46 AM

I think the T-84, it's got very weak armor even compared to other russian tanks. and i'm not a big fan of that 125 mm cannon. link

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fitz RE:poorest MBT ? 2/18/2005 11:44:51 PM

The AMX-30 was really an appalling piece of work. Judging from their poor combat record I suppose one would have to include the T-54/55 as well - and I'm not talking about just recent conflicts either. You can go back to the 67' War when they were still modern-ish and they were outclassed. Other than that its hard to come up with any duds that have sold in any quantity.

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In_tHe_EnD24 RE:poorest MBT ? 2/19/2005 1:26:27 PM

Well the T-55s aren't the best but they aren't the worest I think it was more to do with the fact the Israelis were/are alot better trained and they achived air supremacy

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Bluewings RE:poorest MBT ? 2/19/2005 6:04:08 PM

Quote : "The AMX-30 was really an appalling piece of work." Not at all . It was fast , light (good ground pressure) , easy to fix when needed , and its FCS has always been praised . It was extremely good in water and mud . I take an AMX-30 over T-55/62 ANY day . Btw , the updated AMX-30B2 still something to worry about . Cheers .

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In_tHe_EnD24 RE:poorest MBT ? 2/19/2005 6:07:33 PM

You know the T-55/62s have been upgraded as well

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In_tHe_EnD24 RE:poorest MBT ? 2/19/2005 6:10:42 PM

Well if we are going for base line modles I'd go with the AMX 30, providing my 105mm can engage and kill a T-55 whilest staying clear of the effective range of his 100mm(effective range being aginst the armor of the AMX-30)

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fitz RE:poorest MBT ? 2/19/2005 6:40:23 PM

Actually the AMX-30 was rather slower and more poorly protected than the Leopard 1 (both built to essentially the same requirement BTW), had appalling reliability - particularly with the transmission and suffered from very poor suspension design and limited travel which restricted cross-country mobility. AMX-30's were only purchased by nations that were denied Leopard 1's and in most cases have been withdrawn, even while older types continue to soldier on and be upgraded (Greece and Spain come to mind).

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french stratege T72, Arjun or Ariete ...??? 2/20/2005 8:19:17 PM

AMX30 B2 has solved transmission problem and its mobility on par with Leopard 1. AMX30 B2 has good firecontrol and firepower with its depleted DU rounds. A single batallion of AM30 B2 killed more than 50 iraqis tanks in gulf war one in desert were protection is more important than in mixed wooden terrain (and so AMX30 was at its maximum disadvantage).It is an old updated tank still with good firepower and mobility.And better probably than a M60A3.Not relevant for this thread.

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RetiredCdnTanker RE:T72, Arjun or Ariete ...??? 2/21/2005 11:02:05 AM

Actually, it is very relevant for this thread. The AMX30 can indeed, be considered one of the poorest MBT's of its time period. It had an extremely poor FCS, an atrocious transmission, a lousy suspension and weak armour. In every single category it came in a poor second to the Leopard, and I would even consider it poorer than the M60, which should be another nomination for this thread. As a matter of fact, if it wasn't for the AMX30, I would post the M60 for the worst cold war era tank. The AMX30 did, however have one advantage. The vison blocks gave a very good all round view for the commander, albeit only in the day time.

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fitz RE:T72, Arjun or Ariete ...??? 2/22/2005 6:07:04 PM

You forgot that for years the AMX-30 was saddled with obsolescent HEAT ammunition (the rest of NATO went for the L7 gun optimized for APDS and/or HESH) which had limited effectiveness against the new armours. As for French Stratege, all I can say is "spoken like a true Frenchman." I'm still not impressed and neither was anyone else. That's why nations like Greece and Spain can't dump their AMX-30's fast enough while not only keeping but even upgrading older models. I don't think anyone has mentioned Chieftain yet, which is a bit surprising. Actually I regard Chieftain as a damn good MBT saddled, at least initially with an appallingly bad and underpowered motor. It could be argued that Challenger I was actually a worse tank. The usual British reliability issues (believe me, having owned a number of Brit-built sports cars I can attest to Limey build quality) coupled to a sub-par FCS.

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