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Subject: USMC and the british RMC
trikki    10/2/2004 1:22:05 PM
how come it take the Brits 32 weeks to turn out a marine whereas it only takes the usmc only 16 - surely it can't take that long to convert a british civilian into a decent soldier
 
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timon_phocas    RE:USMC and the british RMC   10/2/2004 2:19:36 PM
the British Royal Marines have all been been Commandos since they converted over in mid-WW II. They are a dedicated special operations force. They are much smaller, more selective, and much more rigorous The US Marines are very good medium infantry, but they are a conventional infantry force.
 
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Ad    RE:USMC and the british RMC   10/3/2004 8:11:38 AM
Just to echo some of what Timon said. The USMC is a large scale expeditionary outfit, armour for example is organic in some units. This is a major difference, as like 16th Air Assault, 3 Commando is an Elite Light Infantry brigade, capable of rapid deployment and apart of the JRRC (Joint Rapid Reaction Corps) in the British Army. (RM?s being Navy of course) The fact is that the USMC would like to have its troops trained to the same standard as the Royal Marines or the Parachute Regiment, yet it simply can?t afford the cost of training (which would double at the least) or the time of training. As such the USMC is structured and tasked in a different way, while the Army?s 75th Ranger Regiment would be more akin to both the RM?s and the Para?s.
 
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Sam    RE:USMC and the british RMC   10/4/2004 10:19:52 PM
The training time is a little misleading. 16 weeks (actually 13) for USMC is only bootcamp. The American Marine will then go to his MOS school. The 32 weeks for RMs produces a fully trained Marine that reports to his commando unit. The USMC will not spend the money training all personnel to reach RM standards because most Marines will only serve for 4 years and never need that level of training. And most missions do not require all marines to have that skill level. For the who's better, neither or both. They have different missions and both do them darn well. I would equate a MEU(SOC) trained infantry Marine to have the equiv of what all RMs recieve. On a side note I don't think Rangers come anywhere close to RM or Para level. As even Mike Golf admitted in the USMC vs Ranger thread basic trained, non ranger school trained US Marines have come in the top 10 at best Ranger comp. His quote: "The Marines have argued for years that a Marine rifleman is on par with a Ranger. The Army now allows them to compete in the annual Best Ranger competition. No Marine team has ever placed better than third in that competition, although the competition has been won by Ranger School graduates who were not in a Ranger Battalion." Marine riflemen placing third in a series of task that they havn't been "trained" on, seems pretty good to me. (I only posted on this thread so I could get a dig in on the tanker guy)
 
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davoj    RE:USMC and the british RMC   10/6/2004 6:25:09 PM
You could always find out put yourself up for commando training! Sounds like you'd enjoy a 32 week holiday.... Davoj
 
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Sam    RE:USMC and the british RMC Davoj   10/6/2004 8:35:20 PM
I know a few American Marines that have done a tour with the RMs. And I have spent many a cold nights of joint training with them, myself during the 80s in Norway Plymouth and Camp Lejeune. Plus tossing back a few pints with them in various clubs around the world. I'm not belittling them. I know their level of training and know the level of training a MEU(SOC) infantryman has. And my days of busting bush are over. Retired for a few years and wouldn't put my body through that type of abose They really get huffy when they find out US Navy ships are dry.
 
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davoj    RE:USMC and the british RMC Sam   10/25/2004 3:06:58 PM
Only wish they spent some of that 23 weeks on social skills? Must be all that walking they do! Davoj
 
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ambush    RE:USMC and the british RMC Davoj   10/25/2004 5:59:25 PM
Social skills? We are talking about warriors here not debutants. It is bad enough that the US military is forced to waste valuable training time on sensitivity classes there is no reason to wish such evil on such a elite organization. Although I am sure that they have similar stupidity imposed on them. It is bad enough to have a "nation of men raised by women" let us not regress further into being a nation of men raised as women."
 
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Ehran    RE:USMC and the british RMC Davoj   10/26/2004 12:11:19 PM
don't be so hard on the sensitivity classes ambush. the lot of a modern footslogger is far more likely to involve low intensity warfare where understanding the civvies you patrol through is important. i read a piece by an american green beret not that long ago where this came up. his team was assigned an area in 'stan to secure. they spent several months building up rapport and trust with the locals. they were enjoying a fair degree of success and getting tips etc. then the brass ran a major sweep through the area in seach of al quaida. the company of paratroops assigned to back up the green berets managed in 24 hours to destroy the rapport the berets had spent months developing. there is a time for the rah rah gung ho stuff but LIC isn't it.
 
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neutralizer    RE:USMC and the british RMC Davoj   10/31/2004 2:04:27 AM
The USMC is, of course, an all arms force. RM all start as infantry then move into specialities mostly infantry based. In Cdo forces non-infantry (eg engineers, arty, log, med corps) are army (or RN) who complete the 'all arms cdo course' (6 or 8 wks IIRC, I understand one very determined female officer (Adjt Gen Corps) finally completed it on her third attempt).
 
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neutralizer    RE:USMC and the british RMC Davoj   10/31/2004 2:10:56 AM
Afternote, the same principle applies to red berets, there it's P Coy instead of AACC with jump training at the end giving a total of about 6 weeks IIRC. In most armies para wings are awarded just for jump training, this is not the general case (there are exceptions) in UK, P Coy is the difficult bit.
 
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