Well we Danes have been lectured a lot lately about the need to respect islam. I saw the other day that islam respect Jesus as a profet; but do not think he arose from the dead, BECAUSE HE WAS NEVER CRUCIFIED. First of all there is the logical flaw, that he couldn't have been resurrected if he had been run down by an oxcart. Second: There is an awfull lot of information on Jesus that is unconfirmed conjecture written down 200 years after his death. One thing we do know, is that he was crucified! There is independend testimony of that. How can you respect a religion that contradicts acertainable facts. They waste time discussing matters of fact and make it a matter of faith! Matters of faith are difficult enough as it is (I do have a problem with Mary's immaculate conception!) and what matters of faith that are interesting. I mean: Is it really relevant, that Jesus walked on water??? (By the way: When I was on Greenland the locals were singularly unimpressed by that stunt: Travelling on the water is the only sensible way of transportation - you just have to wait till it gets stiff as Thumber said)

Well, the Koran has some problems with scientific verifiable facts: 1. It states that the Trinity of Christianity consists of Jesus, John the Baptist and the Virgin Mary. 2. It states that sperm is made in the lower back of the spine, not in the testicles. 3. It states that diseases and ill feelings are the product of jinns, evil spirits, which there consists a whole different bunch of (Tolkien would be envious at the amount of fantasy creatures in the Koran) 4. It states that the Earth is NOT flat, but rather shaped like a bowl, with humans living on the round side. The list goes on. You can't ask islam to be scientificly verifiable, anymore then you can ask a rock to fly.

How can you respect a religion that contradicts acertainable facts. They waste time discussing matters of fact and make it a matter of faith! Matters of faith are difficult enough as it is (I do have a problem with Mary's immaculate conception!) and what matters of faith that are interesting. I mean: Is it really relevant, that Jesus walked on water??? (By the way: When I was on Greenland the locals were singularly unimpressed by that stunt: Travelling on the water is the only sensible way of transportation - you just have to wait till it gets stiff as Thumber said) _________________________________ walking on water and the Virgin Birth are not contradictory to ascertainable facts. They are claimed as special events, and therefore their probability is indeterminate. And walking on water does not mean "walking on ice". There isn't any ice in the Sea of Galilee, and if there had been common at the time, it wouldn't have been remarked upon. If you must say they were drunk, but don't make up alledgedly natural events that are more improbable then a miracle themselves.

How can you respect a religion that contradicts acertainable facts. They waste time discussing matters of fact and make it a matter of faith! Matters of faith are difficult enough as it is (I do have a problem with Mary's immaculate conception!) and what matters of faith that are interesting. I mean: Is it really relevant, that Jesus walked on water??? (By the way: When I was on Greenland the locals were singularly unimpressed by that stunt: Travelling on the water is the only sensible way of transportation - you just have to wait till it gets stiff as Thumber said) _________________________________ walking on water and the Virgin Birth are not contradictory to ascertainable facts. They are claimed as special events, and therefore their probability is indeterminate. And walking on water does not mean "walking on ice". There isn't any ice in the Sea of Galilee, and if there{it} had been common at the time, it wouldn't have been remarked upon. If you must, say they were drunk, but don't make up alledgedly natural events that are more improbable then a miracle themselves.

How can you respect a religion that contradicts acertainable facts. They waste time discussing matters of fact and make it a matter of faith! Matters of faith are difficult enough as it is (I do have a problem with Mary's immaculate conception!) and what matters of faith that are interesting. I mean: Is it really relevant, that Jesus walked on water??? ------------------------ It was relevant enough to record

"walking on water and the Virgin Birth are not contradictory to ascertainable facts. They are claimed as special events, and therefore their probability is indeterminate. " ============== You've *got* to be kidding. 'Claimed special events'? 'Indeterminate probabilities'? Well, guess what; this morning my toothpaste glowed a bright luminous purple while the neighbours cat marched in and in a clear tenor voice annouced the specials at Safeway, in latin. I claim those were some pretty special events. Would you say those are events with 'indeterminate probabilities', or that I made them up to poke fun at your "logic" there? eu4ea

By the way, on the subject of memes, has anyone here actually read Richard Dawkins (the blind watchmaker, the selfish gene, the extended phenotype..?) or for that matter Susan Blackmore's The Meme Machine? eu4ea

News for you: NONE of the aforementioned "isms" has EVER been eradicated. They fall under the catogory of "ideas". Quite different than infections. Ideas are not ever eradicated. They continue to be considered by men or reason who think. They are products of thought. Iradicate thought and you might eradicate the "isms". ' It ain't rocket science!