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Subject: To Pakistani - Talking about American Imperialism
Jeff from Michigan    3/15/2002 5:46:45 AM
Pakistani, After sleeping on it last night and savoring my college winning it's basketball game in the annual American rite of spring I have these thoughts on "American Imperialism". By and large I think that it is not true. Reasons: When asked to leave a country we do. Examples from recent history include the Philipines bases and our re-deployment at Okinawa. Lets not forget about the Panama Canal. We generally don't impose our will by force of arms unless there is a dire humanitarian crisis (Bosnia, Somalia, Kosovo) or our national interest is effected (Grenada, Panama, Kuwait). Telling our opinion and promoting our business and culture is not an imperialistic effort despite what many people say. That is part of the general interaction of geo-politics, business and cultural exchanges. It has happened from the beginning of time and will continue. One other thing I want you to think of. Don't respond immediately but think on it. You said earlier that you thought the "Clash of Civilizations" was garbage. Yet in your post about American imperialism you spoke of a Pan Islamic nation/confederacy. This longing would fall into what Huntington would call a culture clash. Think about it and respond. Meanwhile I am off to work to pump up the Gross National Product of the U.S. Jeff
 
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Pakistani    RE:To Pakistani - Talking about American Imperialism   3/16/2002 8:17:04 PM
Jeff, "One other thing I want you to think of. Don't respond immediately but think on it. You said earlier that you thought the "Clash of Civilizations" was garbage. Yet in your post about American imperialism you spoke of a Pan Islamic nation/confederacy. This longing would fall into what Huntington would call a culture clash." Actually I am completely comfortable answering this now. The reason I regareded Hungingtions clash of civilizations as rubbish was as such.... 1) He thinks of all muslim countires as belonging to one civilization 2) He over estiamtes pan-islamic tendencies. 3) a few things about china here and there... Now let me address my views on Pan-Islamic movements. I am not an advocate of a Pan-Islamic state or confedercy. I hold the view that the only people who really want this are the arabs. They long for the days of their glory and see that they used to rule so many other peoples. Pakistans golden age was Mogual India, independet from the Chaliphate. Pelase refer to my earlier posts about the rest of the Islamic world. I was talking about Pan-Islamic tendencies because I was talkinga about Arab senitments. These sentiments are not found in the rest of the Islamic world. One reason for that our (non-arab) socites tend to be more open and people are *relitively* less disillusioned. Islamic parties have only won a total of 5% of the seats in Pakistani elections in the past. My entire point was that Pan-Arab philosophy may convert it's self into a Pan-Islamic philosophy. Frankly Arabs tend to think of themselves as better Muslims and want to tell others what Islam is. They are convinced that they are the rulers of the Islamic world. Take for example a group "Hizb-Ul-tareer". This is the most popular of the Pan-Islamic groups. In its draft consitution of an Islamic state is says that all memeber of government must speak arabic. Arabs are 20% of the muslim population.It further states that rule will be federal and unitary. Scary or what? I stand by my comment that America brace its self for a Pan-Arab revolution and try to keep it from becoming a Pan-Islamic revolution. For the obvious reasons. Arabs are very disillusioned by bad governence. Other muslim countires are increasily becoming dissillusoined as well. The Centeral asian republics for example. And the postive moves for Good governce by Mushraff aside I dont think I really need to talk about the bad governence thein Pakistan. Concluding the Pan-Islamic response , let me calrify that I have no "longing" for an Pan-Islamic state. I completely agree with your claim that Europes greatness is in its diversity and thats why it rose to power. My Idea of Muslim brotherhood is to strenghtnen the OIC, to resolve conflicting strategic aims among muslim contires and to plant seeds for reform and economic and cultural progress. "When asked to leave a country we do. Examples from recent history include the Philipines bases and our re-deployment at Okinawa. Lets not forget about the Panama Canal." Yes lets not forget Panama, America walked in arrested the Presidnet and installed another leader in his place. "Telling our opinion and promoting our business and culture is not an imperialistic effort despite what many people say" agreed, that is completely ligmit. "We generally don't impose our will by force of arms unless there is a dire humanitarian crisis (Bosnia, Somalia, Kosovo) or our national interest is effected (Grenada, Panama, Kuwait)" Going after your national intrest is not Imperalism. Humanatrian efforts are. Remeber colinization was justified as a civlizing effect on barbarians... or a humantrian effort. America felt like it needed to save the world. Thats why it got involved in 911. That amounts to america thinking of the world as something IT needed to take care of... it had no right to do anything in somalia or kosovo or bosina... I dont think America owes anyone any humanitrian help military economic or otherwise. It should only do so when it is in AMERICA'S intrest. It should do so shamelessly.That is the only way it will not have to spread it's self into a policeman role. That job is for the UN. America should have better things to do... i.e. make america richer. Besides there is a conflict here. Humanitrain aid and help is often used not to relive economc pressure on poor countires but used to make the state (often an american ally) stronger and further entrapping poor countires. You cant really help any other country. Any attempt to do so is actually motivated by an attempt to impose your intrest.Humanitrain aid given to Pakistan in the from of grants and aid in the Zia era were used only to serve american intrests in Agfanistan. What I am saying here is Humanitarian aid is a tool. If anything IT is immoral becuas it is hypocritical. The government of every country should shamelessly pressue its own intrest... atleast that way people will not suspect hypocr
 
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