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Subject: constitutionality
buzzard    6/28/2010 8:48:12 AM
Here's an open question. First a prelude to explain. Over the years, I've seen both political wings screw "that's unconstitutional" many a time. You have organizations, which don't have much in common taking laws and actions to court over constitutionality (NRA, ACLU, etc.) Oddly enough it seems that few enough people are always upset about the unconstitutionality of acts such that they agree with what both sides are hollering about (some Libertarians maybe). It makes one wonder about how many of the screams are actually valid and how many are crying wolf. So why don't we give something a shot here, and I don't want this limited to conservatives (though non conservatives are a bit thin on the ground here). How about we list off, say, a president and give examples of unconstitutional acts. Then, it would probably be a good idea to actually cite the relevant portion of the constitution to make the case. I'll start with an easy one. Barrack Obama- the BP shakedown- demanding a $20B fund to be administered by the government provided by BP violates both the fourth and fifth amendments. There's hasn't even been a trial, much less due process of the law in this case. FDR- seizing all the privately held gold in the U.S. via executive order 6102 back in 1933. Again we have a violation of the fourth amendment. Nixon (and others after him)- the Drug war, which has a host of violations and a slew of laws which wouldn't pass constitutional muster in an earlier era. There was a reason that the 18th amendment was passed in the day. But I guess I'm asking for specific cites, so we'll go with 4th amendment, 5th amendment, 9th amendment, 10th amendment. The Drug War is rife with unreasonable search and seizure, as well as incredible numbers of takings from private citizens who have about nothing to do with the violations. State laws with regard to particular substances are regularly trampled, and congress keeps inventing new powers for itself with which to persecute this "war". So, post up any ones you can come up with. What I'd really like to see is a litany of the Bush constitutional issues. We've certainly heard no end of their existence from the talking heads, so that should be low hanging fruit for anyone who wants to provide them.
 
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YelliChink       6/28/2010 10:46:35 AM
Good to know that NRA is willing to bring law suit all the way to the Supreme Court. Big win today in Chicago.
 
At least we know who funded NRA-ILA. Too bad that we can't be so sure about ACLU.
 
 
 
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buzzard       6/28/2010 10:58:20 AM
Yeah, started a new thread about the McDonald vs. Chicago decision.
 
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Ashley-the-man       6/28/2010 12:43:26 PM
The health care plan will be contested for years.  The provision where Americans will be "require" to pay for health insurance will be a no brainer appeal for the Supreme Court.
 
 
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Hamilcar       6/28/2010 12:59:11 PM
Habeas Corpus.
 
Adams (both), Jefferson, Jackson, LINCOLN, WILSON, ROOSEVELT (concentration camps), Bushes (both), Obama (same).

Ask a Native American about his 2nd, 4th, 8th, and 14th Amendment rights?  How about an African American about his gun rights until  today as clearly that was cited in today's Supreme Court ruling.
 
H.
   
 
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buzzard       6/28/2010 1:34:18 PM
I think you can make a case that the suspension of Habeus Corpus, at least in some of those examples was suspended in a constitutional fashion. The actual wording on it is:
 

The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

 Certainly during the Civil War, there was a case of Rebellion. During WW II the Japanese Americans were deemed a serious security risk also (though less of a strong argument admittedly).
 
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PlatypusMaximus       6/28/2010 4:57:45 PM
Bush used taxpayer TARP funds, specifically legislated for financial institutions, to buy not only all the worst investments he could find, but he gave them to an automobile company.
 
 
 

 
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PlatypusMaximus       6/28/2010 5:02:02 PM
Obama bought an automobile company, but he let congress delegate its fiscal legislative authority to Paulson...Unconstitutional!
 
 
 
 
 
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PlatypusMaximus       6/28/2010 5:06:35 PM
A constitution is not the act of a government, but of a people constituting a government, and a government without a constitution is power without right.
                                                             --  Thomas Paine
 
 
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
                                                            --  George Washington
 
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warpig       6/28/2010 6:32:07 PM

I think you can make a case that the suspension of Habeus Corpus, at least in some of those examples was suspended in a constitutional fashion. The actual wording on it is:

The privilege of the Writ of Habeas
Corpus
shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or
Invasion the public Safety may require it.


Certainly during the Civil War, there was a case of Rebellion. During WW II the Japanese Americans were deemed a serious security risk also (though less of a strong argument admittedly).
 

Except in which Article of the Constitution does that povision appear--i.e., which branch of the federal government has the authority to conduct such a suspension?  Now which presidents actually issued decrees attempting to suspend habeas corpus, as opposed to asking congress to do so?  I know the Great Dictator did, for one.

 
 
 
 
 
 
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buzzard       6/28/2010 7:04:35 PM
Except in which Article of the Constitution does that povision appear--i.e., which branch of the federal government has the authority to conduct such a suspension?  Now which presidents actually issued decrees attempting to suspend habeas corpus, as opposed to asking congress to do so?  I know the Great Dictator did, for one.
 
 Good point. Did Bush have such a provision in one the Patriot Act sections or did he just go for it on his own?
 
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