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Subject: Quebecois a nation?
HoundOfHello    11/28/2006 7:21:53 PM
What's this I'm hearing about the Quebecois declaring themselves a nation and the Canadian PM endorsing this idea? http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/11/23/canada.quebec.ap/index.html I'm a bit confused as to what is going on. Is this a move towards secession, or more of the same old stuff from Quebec? -HoH
 
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Ehran       11/29/2006 2:49:37 PM
it's part of the ongoing and neverending quibbling about the francophone identity.  actually harper and the main opposition parties pulled a bit of a fast one on the pq.  they had a resolution that essentially said nothing with any kind of legal weight to it to undercut an upcoming pq motion.  this has now essentially blown up in the gov't face with the pq gleefully fanning the flames.
basically a long time back the british should have absorbed the french when they took canada and while it would have been stressful at the time they would certainly have saved us a vast amount of hassling since.
quebec wants all the shiny bits of being independant without any of the costs or inconveniences of actually being inconvenient.  should a federal gov't ever grow a set and actually explain to the people of quebec the actual costs and consequences of real independance i expect you would see a vast quiet on the entire subject appear very quickly.
 
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HoundOfHello       11/29/2006 4:34:48 PM
Out of curiosity, if Quebec did indeed secede and the government let them go peacefully, what would be the situation there particularly with regard to the economy? How much does Quebec contribute to Canadian GDP? What would be its primary imports/exports? Would its economy be mainly supported by tourist dollars or would it have an edge in the manufacture of a particularly valuable good/service? Would it prosper, stagnate, or worsen? Who would be its primary trading partner? How would it get its goods out (as I recall, there are very few sea-ports in Quebec)?

-HoH

 
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Ehran       11/30/2006 5:32:41 PM
if quebec did become an independant country i expect their economy would shrivel pretty fast and pretty hard.  it's hard to see how they could survive as they would not be part of the free trade agreement nor the autopact.  a fairly hefty portion of their existing industry would be forced to relocate outside the new country to survive.  the rest of canada isn't going to take quebec leaving very well at all and i really doubt their going to buy anything coming out of quebec.  i know i certainly would have to think long and hard about buying anything made in quebec.  as things stand quebec would virtually instantly take a major hit from the federal gov't of canada no longer pumping money into quebec ventures.  the sudden jolt of assuming 20-25% of the canadian national debt would in fairly short order obliterate their gov't budget plus all the assorted costs of being an independant country would put additional stress on. 

i think you would wind up with quebec being an economic basket case in fairly short order.  it's not going to wind up as haiti north but it's not going to be pretty and it's not gonna look anything like what the pq promised the people of quebec.

 
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Nanheyangrouchuan       12/1/2006 12:23:01 AM
Quebec would follow the pattern of so many eastern european countries who broke away and immediately filled out UN welfare forms to construct their small town/agrarian economies.
 
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Ehran       12/1/2006 3:09:07 PM
i have yet to meet a quebec francophone resident who has any understanding of just how completely screwed quebec would be if they separated from canada.  the idea that they wouldn't be able to take the entire province out doesn't register with them.  the cree and innuit in the north of the province want nothing to do with separation at all.  the idea that the gov't of canada will stop pumping in billions of dollars a year in preferential gov't contracts and would likely stop employing large numbers of quebec residents in the federal service is again a total surprise.

these poor buggers are so incredibly poorly served by both sides in this debate it's hard to comprehend how people can be so ill informed about something so potentially important to their future.

 
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Nanheyangrouchuan       12/1/2006 3:38:50 PM
I wonder if the Quebecois have considered the resistance they might get from those tribes.  Native tribes won't be taking any crap from Anglos anymore, some tribes in the US get out guns, dynamite and morters when there is a dispute over cigarrette taxes with the state.
 
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Ehran       12/2/2006 9:04:44 PM
quebec is pretty much not populated away from the st lawrence river valley and much of the existing province was added to "lower canada" after the formation of canada. there is also the open question of quebec being divisible and the federal gov't response to the indians and innuit asking not to be included in the separation.
it would just devolve into an utterly godawful mess right quickly.

 
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verdunjp    To my Canadian friend   12/4/2006 5:19:01 PM
The Quebec reality is far from what you are saying. I will come back to the forum to expain it but for now, I must go.  By the way, were do you (Ehran) come from?
 
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Ehran       12/4/2006 6:57:13 PM
i'm from manitoba originally and lived on the west coast these last 20 odd years.
 
i'd be interested to find out what i'm so far wrong about. 
 
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Ehran       12/4/2006 7:18:27 PM
 
the population of quebec is concentrated along the st lawrence with only one river valley showing up as being significantly populated on the north shore any distance inland.  there is a single pocket along the ontario border that has a fair populace but most of the province is the shield and that's essentially unpopulated lands.
 
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